There are a number of people, on the technical side, that have worked tirelessly to keep our radio station going for half a century. Over the last 20 years though, Stephen "Tex" Kurtz is at the top of that list.
Born in raised in Dallas, he wanted something different. And having spent some time in upstate New York as a kid, he liked the area. And when he toured the campus, despite the fact that Z89 was broadcasting from the Ostrom house that year, he immediately fell in love with the people and spirit of WJPZ.
Since he was a kid, Stephen has wanted to know how things work. And new studio was still being finished when he entered as a freshman. This was a perfect opportunity for him to jump in and work with John Ferracane, Rob Crandall, and others on putting things together. This included, for the first time, running the radio station from a computer. Ever heard of Jazler? You will.
Eventually, the man they call Tex tired of all the snow, and headed home to Dallas to finish school. But he was never far - always on call for the students. And he returned with John, Rob, and Alex Silverman to help do another studio rebuild a decade after the previous one. You'll hear more details about this in episodes with outgoing GM Liz Doyon and incoming GM Corey Crockett, but this group managed to build a radio station in a week and get it on the air.
Stephen cites that new studio rebuild, and the upgrade to a 1,000 watt transmitter as two of the technical achievements he's most proud of. But of course, lessons from JPZ extent much further. He says that WJPZ taught him you can work with your friends, and how it can be done.
Since returning to Dallas, Stephen did some major market radio work in his hometown, before moving to the IT world, and eventually starting his own company, Total IT, in 2009. And while he does a lot of work in that sector, Tex also works with - you guessed it - radio stations, marrying both of his passions.
We close with a couple of funny stories from Stephen's time at the station, including Peterman knocking us off the air - with his rear end - and a funny moment at Josh Wollf's expense at Chili's on Erie Boulevard.
Join Us in Syracuse for Banquet on March 4th: https://bit.ly/WJPZ50BanquetTickets
The WJPZ at 50 Podcast is produced by Jon Gay '02 and JAG in Detroit Podcasts
JAG: Welcome to WJPZ at 50. I am Jon Jag Gay. Throughout this podcast, we have talked to a number of people who, it's pretty fair to say, the station would not exist without their influence and time over the last years. And if you talk to anybody who's been at the radio station in the last two plus decades, the first name they'd give you at the top of the list is today's guest.
You might know him as Tex. I know him as Stephen Kurtz. Welcome to the podcast.
Stephen: Wow that one's a great intro. I like that.
JAG: I told him offline I had 10 different ways to introduce him and I had to pick one. So Stephen, many of our, their alumni and students know you as Tex. You are, to my knowledge, one of the only, if not the only born, and raised Texan that has come through the annals of WJPZ. Tell me how you ended up there.
Stephen: Honestly, when I was, looking at colleges, what is that? 16, 17 years old? I wanted to go as far away from Dallas as I possibly could. . I wanted to experience something different. And growing up, I had some family in Syracuse.
My mom's side of the family was split between Syracuse and Buffalo and Rochester, all, along the throughway. When I went to look at it I looked at it like the first time I went into Syracuse, I looked at it and I was like, this would be familiar because I've been to Syracuse before growing up, visiting family.
But then the more I walked around campus and everything, I just fell in love with it and I said, this is where I have to go. So that's what I
JAG: did. So how once at Syracuse did you discover WJPZ?
Stephen: So I actually discovered WJPZ before I even was a student, before I was even accepted. Actually, I think it was right after I was accepted.
I took a trip up just to take a look around. My parents wanted me to just, be a hundred percent sure before, signing on the dotted line.
JAG: Before that little boy went that far away. I can understand.
Stephen: I showed up at the house when you guys were at the house and I believe you guys were doing Show your Belly for Nelly.
JAG: Oh my God. But by the way, a bright note in our September 11th podcast is Peterman telling that story. If you haven't heard that episode, go back and listen to it, but my mind is blown right now, dude. Because you're talking about your first impression of the radio station being number one. that POS house and number two, a bunch of high schoolers shaking their belly for Nelly tickets.
Stephen: Wow. Exactly. And I, but I, remember I was still high school age myself. So I thought that was pretty cool. But I was also in radio and I said, holy moly, they're coming out of this POS house, as you said, and they're doing this contest and you guys made it sound larger than life. And I'm like, I wanna be a part of this.
JAG: Wow. So it wasn't at that moment where you thought to yourself, boy, I could try to fix a whole bunch of stuff when I'm here. That part of it came later, I'm guessing.
Stephen: Yeah. No, that came later because, when I heard the house when you guys were in the house, yeah, was there a little buzz, whatever? But it still sounded like you guys were on the air.
You were doing it, So I didn't go in there wanting to fix anything. I went in there, hey, I wanna be a part of this. Hey, I wanna be on the air. I wanna do whatever I can to get involved.
JAG: Please tell me when you were at the house, we told you, by the way, we're gonna have nicer digs when you come in next year as a freshman.
Stephen: Yes. They told me that, and I'm thinking, I originally talked to, I think it was actually Ferracane that had talked to me at first. And he was telling me all about the new build and all that, and I was, really impressed.
JAG: So you had a little bit of radio in your blood beforehand because you mentioned, did you allude to that or is this your first foray into radio?
Stephen: No I was actually on the air in Dallas doing weekends and some other things at Hot 100 at the time. We had just flipped right after I graduated high school. Before I came to Syracuse, it flipped basically just a name change to Wild 100. But yeah, I was on the weekends, I'd walked into at the time it was Infinity Radio, 1998.
I walked in and I was like, hey, do you guys know what a website is? It was like who needs a website? I'm like, you guys need a website? And they're like, the company doesn't have any money to build a website. We don't know much about it. So I said, I'll tell you. I'll help you with the website if you teach me how to be on the radio and that's how I learned.
JAG: Oh, wow.
Stephen: Yeah. Not to say Syracuse didn't shape me because it did a hundred percent. But that was my first foray. So when I came in the Syracuse, I was already a radio nerd. That goes without saying.
JAG: But you already had experience designing websites and on the IT piece of it at that point. So what happens when you get to Syracuse as a freshman and you end up at JPZ, and this is fall of 2001.
Stephen: When I first got there, I made a B-line right over to Watson. Got involved. And I think actually Jag, you were on the air when I walked into the station for the first time. In the afternoon you were on in the afternoon and you were right there. And from that moment on, I just honestly felt like that was my place, that was my family. It was the best. It was really amazing.
JAG: You mentioned that family aspect, and we'll probably come back to these with funny stories later. I just remember my senior year, there was just this group of us that would go to Chili's every Friday afternoon. So you came in the fall, I think in the spring. Instead of being like a typical senior going to happy hour, you and me and Josh and so many others, we would all go to Chili's on Erie Boulevard every Friday night for Presidente Margaritas.
Stephen: There were some good stories.
JAG: There were indeed, maybe not for this podcast. So you really have cemented yourself as the guy when it comes to all technical things at the station. And I don't wanna say it's just you obviously, because you've got Rob Crandall, you've got Alex Silverman, you've got Josh, and you've got so many others.
But when something goes wrong, you tend to be the first call the students make. And this has been true for as long as I can remember now, for two decades. And let me back up for a second. When you first get to know Stephen, and please don't take this the wrong way. But he can come off a little bit as a know-it-all because he knows so much, but then you realize he's not a know-it-all because he really does know it all.
Stephen: Really, I wouldn't go that far, but,
JAG: I've asked him for everything from recommendations to television sets to the laptop that I'm recording this on right now, that I just got two weeks ago, to stuff with my website and IT support from my business if there is something that runs on any kind of a technical thing.
Steven knows how it works. How is it just being curious? Like how did you get to know so much and how did it eventually come into play at the radio station?
Stephen: That's really what it is, right? It's asking questions. It's, hey, I don't know how this works. I wanna find out. I want to figure it out. I wanna know how it works.
I don't wanna just know that it works and. I come in every day and push the same button and the same thing happens. No, I wanna know what happens when I push the button and nothing happens. I wanna know why nothing happened and know how to fix it. And that's always been, since I was gosh, since I was a child, I distinctly remember going up to my dad's office in the early nineties.
And he had gotten a computer, which for a CPA that, used to do all these manual forms and everything, and typewriters and adding machines and all that, the computer was a big deal, right? Yeah, it might have been six months old, and he started having a problem with it. So I ripped the thing apart to figure out how it worked and what was going on with it.
My dad and his reaction was not very positive. But I ended up fixing it and it was just like a loose cable or something, and I'm like, wow, this thing fascinates me. So that's really where it started. It really started just by being curious and asking questions and doing a lot of reading.
I read a ton.
JAG: So you're the one who actually reads the manuals. Got it.
Stephen: So I wouldn't say read the manual. I, mostly read a lot about how things work and if I need to read the manual, fine, but I wanna know how it works, so that way I don't have to read the manual.
Just, here's the concepts, here's what we know and, maybe look at the manual for some caveats. But besides that, hey we're good to go.
JAG: So how did it become that you started fixing things at the radio station?
Stephen: Oh my gosh. You guys had just moved in to the old new studios in Watson and there was still a lot to do, right?
It had been done quickly. Half step backwards, right? Everything that is at Z and all that is done. 99.9% of it is done volunteer, right? . So we didn't have anybody to pay to bring into the studio to bring in a contract engineer to rewire or to. Help us set things up. We had to figure it out ourselves.
And, working with Rob Crandall and John Ferracane, we all just dove in on issues and just started knocking 'em out. One of the first things I did, and I don't know if I'm jumping ahead of you here, is put in a computer. I the first computerized play system for JPZ.
JAG: That was Audio Vault, wasn't it?
Stephen: Actually it was even before that. I don't know if you remember. Jazler. We had, oh, he had a name and he had a hat. His name was Frank Jazler, but it was a computer play software. Because we were having problems filling the overnights and the, always the hard to fill shifts. and we could not use high schoolers. Traditionally, historically the station had utilized high school kids in a lot of day parts.
JAG: Particularly breaks and stuff like that.
Stephen: Right? And we couldn't do that. So we were going into my first winter break and we had nothing. We were we were told by the university that it was an insurance risk and we couldn't do that anymore.
So we had to scramble, pivot, and we put in the first computer playout that ran pretty well over winter break while we were not there. So we transitioned from, minidisc to using computers for sweepers and all that. And there was a lot of push, right? It was something new. It was some something different.
And it was the push in the right direction though. Cuz now, you know, you go into most radio studios, you have 32 monitors.
JAG: Exactly. It's a matter of putting in what's gonna really help prepare the students to get into a career, whether they go into radio or otherwise. And I think that was probably part of the rationale was right after I left where it was decided to go back on University funding because we weren't gonna make the money we needed on our own in the current media landscape to be able to buy the equipment to adequately prepare the students for the real world.
Stephen: That's exactly right. And we may have been a little ahead of the curve, but I think we were right on time. Everything that we do for the station when it comes to the tech side or really anything we do, but especially on the tech side, we are always looking at who uses this in the real world, what experience that the students are gonna get on this equipment that they're gonna get in the real world, so we always try and that's our first thing that comes to our minds when we're doing things for the station
JAG: World's Greatest media. So you actually decided to part ways at Syracuse, which is funny to me cuz you've been so well connected since, but you actually finished up elsewhere, right?
Stephen: Yep. I finished up at the University of North Texas, which is just north of Dallas. And really the reason behind that was simple. I hate snow.
JAG: Everybody listening to this podcast is laughing along with me.
Stephen: We had 192 inches of snow my last year in Syracuse and it was the gloomiest, most cloudy, dreary. My feet were always cold, and I said, a lot of my friends were older.
A lot of my friends had either graduated or were about to graduate. And I'm like my friends aren't here, I'm cold. I'm wet. I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna go back to Texas and I don't regret that at all. In fact, it probably helped my career in a lot of ways. But it raised a few eyebrows, I'll tell you that.
JAG: So after you head back to Texas, you still stayed as, pardon the pun, plugged into the radio station as anyone, because throughout the years you have been involved in every major renovation to the station, starting with getting Prophet and NexGen in there. Mina talked about that a few years later. And then of course, the big rebuild in 2012.
Stephen: Yeah, absolutely. And I wouldn't have it, any other way. That is my way to give back to the students that are there now. I've been really fortunate to work in a lot of cool places to learn a lot of cool things, and the best way, yeah, I can donate, I can do whatever, but really my best way to give back is to give my time.
My time is, everybody's time is their most valuable asset. And I feel like if I've got the time, I've got the skills, hey, have at it. So yeah it's been a lot of hard work and we've pulled off projects in a week's time that normally take months and I'm always, impressed at, wow, we really did that.
JAG: Take me behind the scenes of some memories you have of some of those larger projects you've helped handle over the years.
Stephen: There were two really big things that stick out in my mind when you talk about behind the scenes kind of things that happened. The studio, the main rebuild. We had the opportunity to expand into the space next door to the station that used to be FoodWorks.
The University said, why is there a convenience store in the middle of all this TV and radio and? We took that opportunity and the Chancellor, Chancy, Nancy, as we lovingly called her was really, focused on media and was really believed in the station and its mission.
And we got to split the space with the TV station and so it really very quickly developed into something where we went from a station that had one studio and a prod room, and that was it. You had the back room space, but that was it, to a station that has four studios. It's got a nice office space.
It's got a dedicated, GM office. And the biggest thing a dedicated rack room. We had never had a rack room before, so all of our equipment was actually in the studio side equipment was actually in the studio. I remember that. In a rack kind of hidden, tucked in the back. It really gave us the springboard that we needed to get the station really shaped, for the next 10, 20, 30 years into the future.
Cuz now they can do all kinds of things like podcasting and recording, pre-recording shows or pre-recording content. Stuff that they really couldn't do before, cuz we didn't have the resources.
JAG: Back to being the world's greatest media classroom. And if you walk into that rack room, you'll see that it is what is the, what is it officially called?
The Stephen Kurtz Technical Operations Center?
Stephen: I think it's the Stephen Tex Kurtz Technical Operations Center. Then we've got the Alex Silverman Rack and the Rob Crandall rack. And that was that was, Liz Doyon did all that. She worked really hard behind the scenes on the whole remodel and the renovations.
She worked very hard and very diligently with the university. She was one of the ones that made that happen.
JAG: We had a great conversation with that in our episode with her. I invite you to check that out as well.
Stephen: Yeah, that was mid-December and we were putting that getting the finishing touches ready to put it back on the air.
And I think we were playing a loop of Mariah Carey's All I want for Christmas. I think that's what. We had rolling there at the time.
JAG: That would seem appropriate for that time of year. There you go.
Stephen: That was a crazy time. We did a lot in a very short amount of time.
JAG: A month's work of work in a week is for the way Liz and Alex and everybody else that was there tells the story for sure. You did say there were two things you were most proud of. There was a studio rebuild and what was the other one?
Stephen: When we were able to successfully upgrade to 1000 watts. So we were at a hundred watts for, since its inception on the FM dial. And we were able to design a pattern and a way to put thousand watts in the directions that really have the most populated or the most growth areas in the region.
And I'm really proud of the way our team was able to work together and take something that was only a hundred watts and we did a ton with a hundred watts. Well, think what they can do with a thousand.
JAG: What directions does it go further in now?
Stephen: It goes further into the northern areas like the northern suburbs. That's really where the growth has been. So towards Liverpool and points north. I've heard getting it almost to Watertown before, so that's pretty good.
JAG: And what year was that?
Stephen: I think it was 2017.
JAG: So fairly recently. Yes. And you've got more stuff on the horizon planned for the station too, right?
Stephen: Absolutely. Yep. As time goes on, things age, we've got a new transmitter going. You know the pandemic, just like everything else, interrupted our normal twice a year plans there. So we're still catching up from the pandemic.
JAG: So everything from toilet paper to transmitters?
Stephen: That's exactly right. The supply chain, just like everything else has been a mess.
JAG: I don't wanna go on and on about this, but I do wanna hammer the point home because you are like many alumni. You are not a guy who stands on top of Mount Olympus and screams, look what I did. Look what I did. Look what I did.
Stephen: No.
JAG: Your contributions to the radio station as a student and as an alum are immeasurable. You and many others who have handled so many technical things, rebuilding a radio station, and it falls in a long lineage of people we've talked to on this podcast that built stuff in the seventies and built stuff in the eighties and kept things on the air in the nineties and in the two thousands and 2010s and so on and so forth. You are part of that lineage. Tell me what you have gotten out of WJPZ in terms of life lessons and relationships built.
Stephen: Oh my gosh so many. There are you literally more than I can count, but I really think one of the biggest things that the station has taught me is that everybody always says, oh, don't work with your friends.
Don't mix friendship and business. And you can do it and you have to navigate it carefully, but it can be done and it can be done really well. Because we were all friends, but we were all working together too. So I had never been suspended from any job or anything before. And I had my first experience with that at
JAG: Z. Was I there when that happened or was that after I was gone? Or did I suspend you? I don't know. Maybe that happened.
Stephen: Ferracane was GM.
JAG: Okay. So it was the year after I was gone. Okay.
Stephen: I think it was a year after you were gone. I got suspended. Something needed to be done, and the person that was supposed to do it didn't do it. So I did it. But really, that offended that person.
So long story, but I learned that, hey, I was friends with somebody. They had to suspend me, right? And so dealing with the personal relationships and the professional relationships and balancing that sometimes it could be a little bit difficult, but that's probably one of the biggest things I've taken away.
How to work with your friends and how to then later in life come back full circle and give back with your friends as well. Cuz when Alex and I come back and do work at the station, for example, or Josh and I, or Matt and I, whoever, we're back working together again and. We got a lot of things to do.
There's a lot of stressful situations that we're in, but we're able to handle it and handle it gracefully because we do know how to balance that. And we do know how to balance a friendship with the work.
JAG: It's funny and I know the group of us, we all do stay in touch, text messages and things like that, but there are always these and this is true of so many JPZ alumni. You always have those friends that you could go a couple months or even a couple years without talking to you. You pick up the phone, you pick up right back where you left off. I've gotta imagine when you get back up to Syracuse with those guys, it's the same thing. You just pick right back up where you left off 20 years ago.
Stephen: Oh, absolutely. There's no pause, there's no, gaps. Even though we might not talk all the time, it's like nothing ever happened.
JAG: What are some of the relationships that you've built over the years of people you've gotten close with you, you were either in school with or before or after, Stephen?
Stephen: There's so much. I have become really good friends with Alex Silverman. He just is an amazing talent. He has a brilliant mind, both technically and people wise. And business wise, he has just, I've watched him grow and I am so just proud of him and proud to call him a friend of mine. I was having a conversation the other day with an engineer in another market.
He brought Alex up and didn't know that I knew Alex and just knew that we both went to Syracuse. And I said, oh yeah, Alex is a great friend of mine. And, just to hear the things that I've always said about Alex, hear somebody else say that's just awesome. Josh Wolff was the best man in my wedding. You were in my wedding.
JAG: Yeah. And you DJ'ed mine!
Stephen: I DJ'ed yours.
JAG: You would've been in it had you not been DJing it.
Stephen: But had I not had. JPZ experience. I wouldn't have this. I wouldn't have the best friends that I made. Lifelong adult friends is really what it is. Coming outta high school and going into college, like you don't know what to expect.
It's your first time in a new school, new situation for most people. It's your first time in that situation. So starting brand new with knowing nobody, literally, I think I knew two people when I got to Syracuse. One who I went to high school with who just happened to end up going to Syracuse.
We weren't really close. And then somebody I went to summer camp with, years and years prior, and that was it. So this was new. And so being able to get there and within. What seems like minutes, days, hours, whatever it is have a whole group of close friends and people who you know, support and who are there for you and who are your friends, true friends, that speaks volumes of the relationships that you can build.
And I know so many people have done the same thing, whether it be personal relationships, business, I know businesses were started and, just crazy things have happened because of this place, because of JPZ.
JAG: Very well said. Speaking of starting businesses, tell me about your career post Syracuse and what you've done in the time since.
Stephen: Sure. Actually when I went back home to go to UNT, I started working at Clear Channel first part-time, and then moved to full-time. I was creative services and on air. And started in IT and engineering for clear Channel in Dallas at the Top 40, KHKS. And stayed there for a few years and quickly decided that radio was not really paying the money that I wanted to be making to be able to live fully on my own and not have to worry about, where's my next rent check coming or rent check coming from.
JAG: Stephen. If you pause for a second and listen closely, you'll hear heads nodding of everybody listening to this podcast right now. Continue.
Stephen: The reason why I shared is cuz you know it, it's a good story. Yeah. But it's also like you've gotta look out for yourself. You are your own biggest cheerleader and you have to be, right? So you gotta look out for yourself. So then I started I was an IT director for a couple different companies and while I was doing that, after I left Clear Channel, I ended up doing weekends and then picked up engineering work at Infinity slash CBS Radio in Dallas for their rhythmic AC and their Jack FM station here. And learned a ton about transmission and getting to play with, transmitters that are, putting out 35, 50,000 watts, hundred thousand watts. It's a lot different. So picking up a lot of things there.
And after doing all that and being an IT director in corporate America, I really decided in 2009, at the beginning of 2009, we were smack dab in the middle of the recession and I said, you know what? I really like working for myself and I think I can actually take these people that are getting laid off and start a business.
So I decided to start an IT consulting firm and it has grown by leaps and bounds. 2022 was our best year. Every year's just been growth. I've got about 30 guys now. Have IT customers all over the country as well as radio, too. So I was able to merge two things that I love into, one thing.
JAG: And I gotta imagine some of your some of the ideas behind that traces back to WJPZ.
Stephen: Absolutely, 100%. JPZ is an open book, right? Yeah. There's a format, there's, music logs, you gotta play what's on 'em, but at the same time, it gives you the freedom to explore yours interests in different ways/ and learning how to do that at JPZ really translated into my professional, molding my professional life saying, why can't I do this?
How can I do this within the realm of X? JPZ was instrumental in creating that for me.
JAG: Before I let you go, Stephen, Tex, Dude, as you're called sometimes, give me a funny story or two that you remember from your time at JPZ.
Stephen: I've been thinking about this long and hard. I have been like, what am I gonna tell him?
And the one story that sticks out the most to me, cuz I, cuz you know, we have plenty we could talk about these stories all day, is the day that Peterman and Marty were on the Z Morning Zoo. And back then we didn't have as great of equipment as we do now. Like we talked about before, all the transmitter equipment to control the transmitter was in the studio.
And the transmitter itself was on Day Hall, but there was a remote control in the studio. It's in that back little corner. I forget what Peterman was doing, but it was a bit of some sort and it was zappy hour, but it was in the morning and I forget what he did, but he was playing, She Bangs and dancing around the studio and he booty bumped the remote of the transmitter.
Takes us off the air. Like literally just all of a sudden now, like I said, we didn't have great equipment back then. The transmitter turned off. But it would not turn back on.
JAG: Oh, Peterman took us off the air with his ass.
Stephen: Yeah, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. So I was about to go to class and I skipped class.
I'm not, hopefully my parents don't listen to this. I skipped class.
JAG: Statute of limitations.
Stephen: Yeah, skipped class and I went up to the transmitter and ended up spending like two hours up there trying to coax that thing back on. But yeah, that, yeah, definitely Peterman's ass turning off the transmitter. That was my go-to story
I was not happy. I was very unhappy going up there in the snow. It was cold. Yeah. Not fun.
I do have one more story.
JAG: Absolutely.
Stephen: You were talking about this earlier and it brought it back up into my mind. We used to go to Chili's on Friday. and it was a big group of us, but I feel like there was always like a core group and then other people would just filter in and out as they could.
JAG: That core group, I wanna say, was who was in that core group? It was you, me, Josh, Ashley Luongo, Jared Fialko.
Stephen: Katie Bell I think came with us the most times.
JAG: Rob Crandall would've been there.
Stephen: Rob Crandall was there. Yep. That was like the core. . And I'm gonna apologize to Josh in advance. He knows where this is going.
But that's okay. So Josh Wolff had this interesting habit that everybody had picked up on. Whenever the check would come or right before the check would come. He had this knack, I don't know what it was. He would go to the bathroom.
JAG: I remember that.
Stephen: So one day, I think you and I came up with this. We decided that when Josh got up to go to the bathroom, we would all get up and leave. And the point of it was to see who he called first. And how many times?
JAG: Because we sat in the car in the parking lot.
Stephen: Oh yeah. We pulled the car around back so he couldn't see us.
JAG: In Josh's defense, I should say. It's not that he never paid his share of the check. He always paid.
Stephen: No, he always paid.
JAG: He always just would disappear when the check came for some unknown reason.
Stephen: And so we decided, let's do it. I think he called Katie Bell first.
JAG: She was the money person.
Stephen: She was the money person! She would always be the one handling the money, handling the checks. She always took the check from the server and said, you do this, you do that, you do this. And, he called Katie first, and then I think he called you and then I think he finally called me like, fifth down the list.
JAG: As we are all sitting in your truck. Just like cackling laughing because we were watching him squirm.
Stephen: Because I'm the one driving. Yeah.
JAG: Oh yeah. That was good. He was pissed over that he was heated over there for a while.
Stephen: Josh will tell you he always turns red. He was red
JAG: Wow. The time we pretended to stick Josh with the bill at Chilis. That is a good one.
Stephen: We went back and we paid it. We took care of it, but it was still good.
JAG: And I think we can leave it there. Stephen. Thank you for your time today and thank you for all your contributions to the station over two decades and hope to see you in March.
Stephen: Absolutely. We'll see you in March for sure.