Stacey Simms, '93, has done it all. She's worked professionally in radio, in television, and now in podcasting. (She also voiced the Greatest Media Classroom documentary for WJPZ's 40th anniversary!)
Stacey temporarily walked away from Z89 early in her Syracuse career, but it was the staff of the station that eventually brought her back into the fold as an upperclassman and an alum. Today, we walk through her professional journey from Syracuse to Utica and back, then eventually to her current home in Charlotte.
Stacey's podcast, Diabetes Connections, was created when she saw a void in the space. Her son was diagnosed with Type 1 Diabetes, and while many shows focused on lifestyle and stories, this newswoman craved information. So her news-center diabetes podcast was born, it became a business and even two books! We actually take a few minutes in this episode to dispel a few myths, misconceptions, and stereotypes about the disease.
Stacey has been an advocate for women both in the media industry and even among the WJPZ Alumni Association. We ask her about the gender gap, what can be done, and even some bigger picture issues within the radio industry.
Naturally, there are WJPZ connections throughout Stacey's life, and she shares one story in particular - living in Utica with WJPZ legend Sharon Goodman, aka BB Good.
More info:
Stacey's Podcast, Diabetes Connections: https://diabetes-connections.com/
Join Us in Syracuse on March 4th: https://bit.ly/WJPZ50BanquetTickets
The WJPZ at 50 Podcast is produced by Jon Gay '02 and JAG in Detroit Podcasts
JAG: Elcome to WJPZ at 50. I am Jon Jag Gay. I'm joined by my podcast buddy today. She has presented with me about podcasting at various fall conferences and JPZ events. And that is Charlotte, North Carolina's own. Staecy Simms from the class of 93. Thanks for joining us, Stacey.
Stacey: Thank you so much for having me. This is such a great idea and I'm very excited and very honored to be part of it. Thank you.
JAG: We are honored to have you, and also worth mentioning the documentary on the world's greatest media classroom that Scott MacFarlane put together 10 years ago for 40th anniversary. You were the voice of.
Stacey: I can't believe that's 10 years ago, but of course it is. That was such an honor. I can't thank Scott enough and thank you to everyone who helped with that. What an honor with all of those voices and all of that. To be asked to voice that. That was a thrill for me and it was really interesting cuz I got to learn more about the history of the station than I knew, I thought I knew a lot.
But boy, if you haven't seen it, definitely check it out. It's really well done. And I say that as the person who contributed, contributed my voice, but I say it's very well done. Just in general, the production is incredible. They did such a great job on that.
JAG: I be lying if I didn't say I cram watched it right before interviewing Scott for the podcast, and that gave me some context to talk to some people from different eras that I did not know as well.
So your point is certainly well taken. For those alumni and listeners who don't know you, give us a brief history of how you came to Syracuse, got involved with the station, what you did at the station, and then we'll get into your career since.
Stacey: You got it. I think like a lot of people you're gonna be talking to, I always knew that I wanted to do something with broadcasting and decided to go to Syracuse because of that.
So I'm from New York. It wasn't a big stretch for me to drive a couple hours upstate to go to college. And when I got to Syracuse, I tried to be part of everything. I wasn't quite sure what I wanted to do. I thought TV reporting, but I went to UUTV at the time. Which is now what? Citrus tv, I think.
JAG: Orange, citrus. Some variety of fruit. Yes.
Stacey: The campus TV station. I went to the Daily Orange and I went to WJPZ. So for the first couple of weeks of my freshman year, I tried to do everything and then, slowly as things go, it settled out. And for me, it actually settled out at the TV station and the paper. I wrote for the Daily Orange my freshman year.
I stayed at the TV station my whole time I was at Syracuse and I actually didn't go back to the radio station after the first couple of weeks, or I guess months, of my freshman year. But for me, my story was a little different. I graduated in 93 and my first couple of jobs after college were in upstate New York.
So I got a job in television in Utica as a TV reporter and then an anchor, and then I came back to Syracuse and did mornings at Channel 3 for a couple of years. And during that time, and it was really beginning the summer before my senior year, and I'll talk about that in a minute. I reconnected, never had another shift, but reconnected with WJPZ and got a lot more involved than I ever expected.
And my summer before my senior year, it's because I lived with. Beth Russell, who was then later, Beth Gorab, who was really involved at the station. And so made a whole bunch of friends there and got sucked in again, but did not work there. Just had a lot of fun with the people who did.
JAG: And that's the common thread, I think through 50 years, Stacey, is, I think back to my time there, and I'm sure it's true for other alumni. There were people who worked at the station, but because it was such a big inclusive family, the friends of the people who worked at the station also became part of that group and. We all went out to the bars together. We all went out to eat together.
We all partied together. We did all of that stuff because the group was just so wildly inclusive.
Stacey: It was funny because in my senior year I worked at WSYR as a weekend radio reporter. So when you were like, we party together, we went to bars together. I was kinda lame my senior year and there wasn't a lot of partying happening because I had to go to work all weekend.
JAG: You had that silly career thing you were trying to get a jump on.
Stacey: And Beth worked at Y94, so the two of us were over at that office. SYR, when I was there, and Y94 was like at the bottom of this amazing glass, beautiful building. It just seemed ooh, this is gonna be very glamorous. Of course, it was the nicest building I think I worked in again for years and years. Cause most TV and radio stations are not in the nicest buildings. But it was a situation where I became friends with Beth. And then that was the summer where they gave away a car at the State Fair. And they were doing all sorts of crazy things at the radio station.
And because I was working in radio, the city was talking about WJPZ. And it became, for me, a place where I reconnected and as you said, hung out with people that senior year, you're all looking to make connections and where am I gonna work and what am I gonna. It became a different way for me to get involved.
And then of course after graduation I started going back to the reunions and the banquets.
JAG: Gotcha. So you mentioned working in Utica, working in Syracuse. Talk about your professional path since graduation, cuz you have done a lot.
Stacey: Yeah. I went to Utica, New York right after college and got a job at WUTR, as a reporter, and stood out in the snow for several months, but it was very quick. Six months later, I got hired across the street at WKTV and became their five o'clock anchor. Came back to Syracuse a couple of years later, did mornings for three years. And then in 99 I moved to Charlotte where I am now.
I stayed at a TV station here in Charlotte, WBTV for three years. And then frankly, I couldn't get where I wanted to go in television. I wanted to stay in Charlotte. And you know how it goes a lot of times if you wanna get promoted, you gotta leave. And I really did not want to leave. I loved Charlotte.
I already had started a family. I met my husband, Slade, in Utica. We had moved here together. We had started a family. My daughter was almost one, and I was very fortunate and got hired at WBT Radio and did mornings there for 10 years. So I actually had moved to Charlotte to get away from mornings. I thought that's enough.
I did it for three years in Syracuse. I never wanna get up at 2:30 in the morning again. And then three years later, there I am again. And because of that early morning wakeup,. By that time my daughter was about to enter middle school. My son was in elementary school. Life was bananas. My husband worked nights.
He owned a restaurant, so we never saw each other, and I decided to leave. I did leave on my own. There were some mitigating factors that made it easy to leave , but I was very fortunate to be able to just leave on my own. I was not let go, and I took a year or two to figure out what to do next.
Worked at Time Warner Cable, which I think is Spectrum News now here in Charlotte as an "MMJ," which is not a term I was familiar with at the time.
JAG: Multimedia journalist, right?
Stacey: Multimedia journalist. I kept calling it a one man band, and they were like, no, MMJ. One man band, which actually was a lot of fun. I loved editing.
I loved thinking things through in a way that I hadn't before. I did not like schlepping the camera. That was not a lot of fun for me. But other than that, it was great. And then after about a year or so of doing that, I started my podcast and that has been a whole new career move for me.
JAG: So the podcast, you are one of the podcasters, one of the view podcasters I know that has actually monetized your podcast.
Tell me how the podcast got started, the idea and how you grew it so much, and then we'll come back to JPZ and how that has influenced your experince.
Stacey: Sure. Podcasting was something for me that I felt like I knew very well before I started. It turns out I didn't, but I thought I did.
JAG: All of us radio people think that.
Stacey: I had listened to podcasts for a very long time, since the mid two thousands when you really had to take your iPod and plug it into the computer and download stuff so you could listen to it.
JAG: Hence the name podcast. You were an OG podcast listener.
Stacey: I was an OG podcast listener, right? Not a podcaster. My son has type one diabetes. It used to be called juvenile diabetes, and he was diagnosed right before he turned two, and that was in 2006. So I was looking for podcasts about diabetes, and I found quite a few, but they were mostly adults talking about their own personal stories.
Which was really fun, really good, helpful information for me. But as a person who'd spent their career in news, I was looking for the diabetes news show that I wanted, right? Where's the news? As you listen, you're thinking Stacey, it's, I see it on the news all the time. What is one or two stories a year about, the difference maybe between type one and type two.
Maybe if you watch CNBC, you'll see some stock stories on some diabetes technology companies. And then you see a lot of unfortunate stories that are not the best about type two diabetes, and there's a lot of misunderstanding. Let's put it that way. So I decided to start a diabetes show that was focused on news and information.
JAG: Before you get into that, Stacey Yeah. What are some of the misconceptions that are out there? Just for anybody listening to, if there's one or two that we wanna put to bed.
Stacey: Oh, thank you so much. Let's take three minutes and talk about diabetes, and I'm gonna say three minutes cuz I have a lot to get through because as you listen, it's quite possible if you have a type two diagnosis, but your medication is not working for you, you don't have a big family history and you might even be on the thinner side.
And you're doing everything you're supposed to do and your A1C is not coming down. You might have something called LADA or 1.5 Diabetes. And LADA is latent autoimmune diabetes. In adults, it truly is 1.5. It is not a made up thing. But people do call it by both of those names. This is something that is a real diagnosis.
It's a diagnosis that is a little different from type one, very different from type two. Basically doctors see a person with type one diabetes, or they see a person who's over the age of, let's say 20, they come in with diabetes symptoms immediately. You have type two. Probably not. So type 1.5 is something to keep in mind.
But when I talk about misconceptions with type two, there's this #dessert, #diabetesonaplate. There's all this misconception about diabetes is caused by sugar, lack of exercise, et cetera. There's a new whole school of thinking that diabetes is a disease of high blood sugar, but in reality, being overweight, being sedentary does not always lead to diabetes, and you can be fitter and still develop Type two diabetes.
So there's a lot of blame and shame that actually keeps people from seeking treatment. There's a lot of shame that keeps people from starting insulin. Oh no, I've done something wrong if I need insulin. Where quite probably it's genetics. You may be overweight. And wouldn't it be great if we could all lose a lot of weight and be very fit and run marathons?
But there's a reason why most of us are not a size two, and that's cause it's hard. And our genetics aren't really made that way. So I would just, as I take a deep breath here, be kinder to yourself if you have a diabetes diagnosis, and take a moment to think this through. Yes, we could all eat. better. But diabetes is not caused by diet and it's just one of these misconceptions that is really, it's harmful in a way.
We don't tell people with high blood pressure that they should be ashamed of themselves and how dare they need medication? Or the same with cholesterol, right? But we do that with people with diabetes.
JAG: You must have eaten a ton of salty food. That's probably why you have high blood pressure. You don't really hear that.
Stacey: No. Or even if you did, we don't shame people for that in the same way, right? So it's one of these things where we've really, in the diabetes community, we've taken a long time to try to fix this cuz it keeps people from seeking care. And a misdiagnosis is really dangerous. The most dangerous time to be diabetic is before anybody knows you have it, right?
So if you have type one, you could be dead in days if people don't know you have it, if you don't get insulin. And it happens. People are misdiagnosed with the flu. Happens this time of year. A three year old will go in and Oh, he is got the flu. And then you know, a week later they're in intensive care because no, they have Type 1 diabetes. Hey, I have a podcast on that.
JAG: Which is called, by the way?
Stacey: It's Diabetes Connections,
JAG: which we can link in our show notes of course.
Stacey: Thank you. Yeah, and so we don't actually do a lot on the show about educating on those things because once you find my show, you have diabetes or someone in your family does.
So we do deep dives on the newest insulin pump, the newest insulins that are coming out. Lots of technology, lots of celebrities with type one and things like that. It's actually a lot of fun. I do get asked, " Isn't it sad to do a show like that?" No, it's great .
JAG: It's great how you've used your news background to create the diabetes news show that you were looking for. You found the need and you filled the need because it didn't exist out there. And then to bring it back around to JPZ, these are connections. I know personally, you introduced me to one of my bestest, most favorite clients, Melissa Joy Dobbins. I don't just say that cuz she'll probably listen to this episode, but she is a registered dietician nutritionist.
She has a podcast called Sound Bites. You connected me with her. We've been working together for several years. And then she actually connected me with the Association of Diabetes Care and Education Specialists, and I work on their podcast too. And that is all thanks to the JPZ connection. For me. That is Stacey Simms, so thank you.
Stacey: Oh, you got it. I love connecting people and it really is one of the best things as an alumni that comes outta the group, right? We all keep in touch. We can all help people. I always said if I need a job, if I was going to go back on the radio, there's a whole bunch of people I could call up. And it's not just for radio stuff,
I hate to say it, when people are diagnosed with diabetes, they find me, or when people have questions about how I wrote a couple books, they wanna know about that even. I've had a couple of conversations. Let's share one and then I'll tell you about another one. About moving to Charlotte, about geography.
Yep. And things like that. And then truly in the last couple of years, there have been more and more conversations about women in broadcasting. And a bunch of us are having a lot of offline conversations about that. I'm really thrilled about how that's going.
JAG: Okay. I'm glad you mentioned that, Stacey, because women in broadcasting is a topic I did wanna cover with you today. Absolutely. And if we're seeing a sea change in that
Stacey: I don't think we're starting to see a sea change in that. I hope we do see more of it. . I think radio has a lot of problems. One of which was, who announced they were retiring this week or was leaving? Was it Scott Shannon? Yeah.
75 years old. Okay. Bless his heart, as we say in the South. Yes. But when I saw that and a bunch of people were commenting on the post, and this is a guy who's been huge player in New York and nationally for a very long time, obviously, and the people commenting were like, I can't believe they're forcing him out, or this can't be his choice.
And what I wanted to say was, this is one of the huge problems with radio. He's gonna leave and be replaced by somebody who's what, 25 years old? Look at all the talent between the ages of, let's generously say 30 and 50. 30 and 60. That never got a chance in so many of these major markets, cuz these guys never retired.
And I don't know how you fix something like that, But it's a huge problem in the industry that there was never this chance given to, not even Gen X, but to Millennials. Who never got to grow their radio audiences. And so radio, I don't know about your markets. In Charlotte, North Carolina, the number one radio station for a quarter last year, it was only for a quarter, but it's still significant, was the classical radio station that Davidson College owns.
Now it's a lovely station. They play great music. But what does that tell you about radio in this market? That the average listener is not 25 years old. The average listener is,who's listening to classical music? 80 let's be generous. 65.
JAG: Okay. Boomer.
Stacey: Exactly. And those people have money and they're spending, but not like they used to.
It's just, it's one of those things. So you were asking me about men and women, and I went to age, and there's nothing wrong with those listeners. That's fabulous. That's wonderful. But not really. It's not sustainable. Yeah. And so radio has lost all these younger listeners for many more reasons than just a 75 year old DJ
but they've lost many listeners over the years for many reasons. When I was at WBT, they would laugh at me because I'd be like, we have to be on social media. , we have to be on social media. I'm one of the few journalists or broadcasters that was working for a large station and didn't get verified on Twitter.
That's cuz my station didn't take it seriously. So everybody, if you and I know people are gonna look this up. There's people on WBT who are verified after a certain time period. If you worked there after a certain time period, the station made the effort. But they didn't see it. They didn't see the value. They didn't see the value of podcasting.
JAG: I remember in 2007 telling my boss in Vermont, we need to be on Facebook. And he said, why? And it was an uphill battle. But we eventually got on Facebook. So your point is certainly well taken and resonates with me.
Stacey: Oh, it was horrible. Not even verification, but Right. A presence on Facebook, a presence on podcasting. I spoke to a lot of program directors in 2020 and 2021 about podcasting, cuz I was considering doing a consulting business. I think radio stations do not understand podcasting at all. Agreed. And this is to your point about monetization. We can talk about that they understand how to put sound into a computer.
They understand that they have great talent and they should be available to people whenever they wanna listen to them, but they don't understand how to make any money on podcasting. So they're leaving so much money on the table. I can help if you're listening. I can help with that.
JAG: Call Stacey. Call me. We'll tag team it. We'll talk to you about how you can be successful in podcasting.
Stacey: Oh, it's unbelievable.
JAG: Okay, before we come back to JPZ, I do wanna ask you specifically about the gender piece of all
of this.
Stacey: It was interesting. I went into talk radio, news talk radio when I was a 31 year old new mom, which is not the demographic. for news talk. I was 25 years younger than the youngest host at that time at the station, which was fine. It worked out great for me, but it was very eyeopening. There is a lot of, there's a lot of problems for younger women in radio and women in general in radio, and I'm not gonna be the first person to talk about this. And it's not a question of sexual harassment for the most part. It's not a question of that, it's much more just a bias against listening to women. When I went into radio when I was thinking about it, when I was listening to it growing up, you had basically the two guys and a girl format. Even on a newsy or station.
And the girl was there to be like either the news girl that the hosts would make fun of, or the giggle girl. That the host would make fun of. And even, and I'm sorry to say this, even when I went to JPZ my freshman year in 1989, I encountered a lot of that and that was actually my first role at JPZ.
I was a news reader and I was on the wacky morning show. And I didn't like it. I didn't feel comfortable. I knew it wasn't what I wanted to do, and I felt much more comfortable in different environments, so I left, and that really changed. There was a sea change of that because in the next few years you had a lot more women in leadership at WJPZ.
But when I say I have conversations with the women of WJPZ over the years, it started, I wanna say maybe 10 years ago now, it might have been less when we were all there for an alumni weekend and on Fridays you guys do those great panels and all the panels were full of men. There was not one woman on any of those panels, and that really started us saying, look, we have to point this out.
We have to do something. And it shouldn't be incumbent always on women to do that, but I think it did take us pointing it out. And so last year we had a really good discussion at the reunion about having more help for women in their career, cuz I've given a lot of how to negotiate salary advice, how to talk to your program director, how to do this kind of stuff, how to make sure you, you aren't pushed around, because I think a lot of guys don't mean to do it, it's just the way that, oh, I hate to say it like this.
It's the way society shapes us. So it's very difficult. It's not something you and I are gonna solve today, but it's worth talking about. It's worth bringing up. And I wish, frankly I had the language that I have now and with the conversations that are being had very publicly about women. I wish I'd had that when I was a 31 year old new mom at the radio station cuz I wasn't treated badly by any stretch of the imagination.
But I wasn't taken seriously for quite a few years. Took me six or seven years to find my voice at that station and tell them what I really was worth and what I needed and what I wanted and to get it.
JAG: So you mentioned working with the female students, female alumni of the radio station, and then you mentioned your experience there at the beginning when you first got there in 89.
I'm curious what other lessons you have taken with you from your time at JP Z and JPZ adjacent through your college years that have served you well in your professional life.
Stacey: I think, and I may get pushback from the wonderful people who were there. But I think the lesson that I learned from WJPZ in the summer, what was that of 92?
I said they gave away a car at the state fair, right? Act like you belong. Just act like you belong. And that's adjacent to fake it till you make it, but I don't like that. But if you can act with confidence going into a situation, even if you might not feel that confident, if you can act with that confidence, it will come.
It really will come eventually. Nobody, and people aren't gonna call you out on it as much as you think they will. When I think of that summer and other people may tell the story and they may tell it differently, but I bet at least one or two of the people who are integral to that were like, I can't believe we did that.
And then, I called them up and asked and they said yes. I can't tell you how many times in my career, and especially in podcasting when you're asking sponsors and you're putting deals together, and I am all by myself. I do not have a staff. I do have an editor who helps me, but I do not have any kind of staff for this.
There have been so many times when I've said, I can't believe I'm gonna ask for this, and then I do it, and the person says yes. It's amazing. So that's a big lesson I took is, you have to ask, be confident about it. I've told my kids a lot. If you're afraid to hear no, you will never hear yes.
JAG: I like that.
Stacey: I like that a lot. It's not the best parenting advice cuz then they ask you everything and then you have to say, no.
JAG: Can I have the car keys? Can I stay out late tonight?
Stacey: Yeah, exactly. It's a great life philosophy or it's a great life lesson and it's really helped me a lot. And I think a lot of that comes from the chutzpah of being a student run radio station that played big in the market.
JAG: So right off the top,Stacey, you mentioned Beth as a great friend of yours and a lifelong relationship you made at the station. Any other names come to mind?
Stacey: Yeah, those connections came in handy very quickly right after graduation. I took some time, didn't get a job right away. I grew up just north of New York City in Westchester County and was looking for a job as a local TV reporter, so I knew I had to get outta New York City.
That wasn't gonna be an entry level, but I was lucky and got a job as the fill-in on a morning radio show for a woman who'd gone on maternity leave. So I had a three month guaranteed gig with full-time hours at WFAS AM and FM, but I was doing the AM in White Plains, New York. So I would work in the morning and then I would send out my resume, wherever I could.
But I was looking for television. I was not looking for radio at the time. And there were a couple of people in Utica, New York, which was like a three and a half hour drive, so I could zip up there after work on a Friday and make it in time for a job interview if I was lucky enough to get one or just to go knock on doors.
So I did that a couple of times and one of those people was BB Good! Sharon Goodman. So I crashed with BB for a couple of nights. I would go up, it's so ridiculous that we did this, but I know I'm not the only one. I would literally go to the TV station and try to meet with the news director, give them my tape, my VHS tape, or my HI-8 or whatever we were using at the time, but I'm pretty sure it was VHS.
This was the fall of 93 right after my graduation. And then I would hang out with BB and with Adam Shapiro. And there were a couple of people living in Utica at that time. They were both working in radio there at different stations. And in, I don't know, late November, I finally got a job at WUTR. One of two TV stations that I had dropped my tape off to in Utica.
I really needed a roommate because my salary was gonna be $12,500 a year. Yikes. And even though Utica at the time, and I assume now, is a pretty affordable place to live, that was not a wage that would set me up for high class living. So BB and I got an apartment together.
We had opposite shifts. I don't remember exactly what our shifts even were, but we were not home together. We hung out together. We went out together. It was great. And that's also a time when I started coming back to the Banquet because we were so close, first of all, Utica to Syracuse, and there were a couple of us. It was really fun. And then fast forward 10 years, 15 years. I'm trying to think, because BB was the voice of Radio Disney. She was not only one of their really prominent jocks, she was the bee. I don't know if anybody listening remembers this, but we watched a ton of, it was I think Disney Junior at the time.
This would've been the early two thousands. My kids were born in 2001 and 2004. So when they were really little, we used to watch Disney Junior or whatever it was called, and they had this bee, and it was BB. And I was so impressive to my kids because I knew BB Good. I knew that voice. I knew the bee.
Nevermind that I had been on television in Central New York for almost 10 years and then done one of the top rated morning shows in Charlotte where they actually lived for another 10 years. , my, the thing they were interested in me on radio was, could I get them tickets to Radio Disney shows.
But I never planned to go into radio. I was always gonna stay in television. And it turns out that radio is my true love and I should have gone back to JPZ much sooner. But people like Matt Friedman who were so helpful along the way, I love talking to Matt about industry and about anything. He's so smart and he's so good.
I'm gonna leave people out because there's just so many people I've kept in touch with. Dave Gorab, again, with radio industry stuff has been really helpful and it's always fun to me. Where I run into, in Charlotte, we've got a bunch of people here. We always joke that we should have a Charlotte picnic.
JAG: Yeah. You've got Lauren Corriher, formerly Laura Levine. You've got Mike Couzens and more.
Stacey: Yeah, everyone should come to Charlotte. It's fabulous. I also, I didn't know her cuz she's younger than me, but I think you connected me with Michelle Badrian.
JAG: Yep. Formerly Michelle Buchwalter, she's in Memphis. Very close friend of mine that I've connected with over the years, yep.
Stacey: Speaking of women in radio, she and I have had a lot of conversations over the years. She's fantastic. It's an amazing group. What's really nice about it is when you say who have you kept in touch with? Even people that I have just met at the Banquet last year.
Or if you connected me with somebody who's a student now, it's that instant connection. You understand what they're going through. You understand what they want. You understand this, I don't wanna call it a sickness of radio, but there's definitely something different about everybody who wants to be, at least in front of the microphone.
You program director types, you have your quirks. But there's definitely a radio industry, or maybe we'll call this podcasters. I don't think so, though. I think it's still radio industry people. There's definitely a spark. And if you are at Syracuse and if you're at JPZ, there's a reason why you're there.
There's a reason why you've decided to do that, and that I think is something that really connects us in a way than say, being a policy studies major. Shout out to Maxwell School, but it's not quite the same thing.
JAG: You can tell that you're an expert podcaster. Stacey, cuz you've given me the perfect place to leave this. Thank you so much for joining us today on the podcast and for all you do for JPZ, for students and alumni, and all the connections that you help make. So thank you for that and thank you for your time today.
Stacey: Thank you so much for the opportunity. It was a lot of fun.