"Kid" Michael Rock grew up taping Casey Kasem and trying to talk up the songs himself. So it's not surprising that he applied to Syracuse, and only Syracuse. And he set out to find WJPZ before his parents had finished unpacking him into Flint Hall. Who was the first person he met at the station? BB Good.
Kid got his FCC license and was soon doing every airshift, including mornings with Steve Donovan (then "Abe Froman"). Ironically, they'd end up competing against each other years later.
Rock retells the WJPZ at 50 stories of Spunky the Midget Wrestler and getting drunk on the air with a police officer from his perspective. You'll also hear about his brilliant move to take his girlfriend to Phantom of the Opera in Toronto - and what he did to blow the weekend.
Michael says as much as he learned about radio at WJPZ, he learned even more about management. They are lessons that have served him well in his current role as director of content for Fun 107, a station he's been at for decades.
Many jocks don't want to spend time on the "internet" aspects of their show, but Kid tells us why it's so important to focus on more than what's just coming out of the FM speakers at that exact moment.
For someone who's worked in local radio for so long, how does he see the industry surviving? By staying local. Rock elaborates on that and how he does it.
The WJPZ at 50 Podcast Series is produced by Jon Gay, Class of 2002, and his podcast production agency, JAG in Detroit Podcasts.
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Jag: Welcome to WJPZ at 50. I am Jon Jag Gay.
Jag: I'm very excited to get to know today's guest a little bit better. Because of his great ties to my home state of Massachusetts, I feel like I should have gotten to know him better over the years, but I'm excited to sit down with him today. Kid Michae: Rock. Welcome to the show.
Michael: Thank you very much, man. I appreciate that all you've been doing. I've been watching all of the podcasts. Honestly, there must be an enormous amount of work that goes into that. I can tell you that everybody I've talked to is just so appreciative of what you've done and really bringing this to the forefront and celebrating 50 years the way JPZ should be celebrated.
Jag: I appreciate you saying that. So take me back to the beginning, Mike. How do you end up at Syracuse and then eventually the radio station?
Michael: How do I end up at Syracuse? It was actually the one and only school that I applied to.
Jag: Okay.
Michael: I applied early decision. I found out on Christmas Eve that I was going to school at Syracuse, and I was like, all right, we don't have to apply anywhere else. Done deal.
Jag: Nice.
Michael: It actually annoyed my parents because I was very relaxed about it, I'm telling you. Like, I'm not sure if you've got kids or not. We just went through the college process. What a difference between when we were kids applying to schools and the way it is now? It's insane.
Jag: It's all online now, right?
Michael: It's all online, but the competitiveness and the like, oh, my goodness. It's the stress.
Jag: How many sports do you do? How many extracurriculars? You do all that stuff, right?
Michael: You have to be, like, the perfect person, or you're not going anywhere. That's the way it feels when you're going through it, man. I'm telling you. I'm so glad it was not like that when we were applying to schools, because I probably would not have gone to Syracuse because I wouldn't have been able to get in. But again, it annoyed my parents because they were on me about, where are you applying? What are you doing? And I'm like, I got it. I got it. Applied to the one school.
Michael: Early decision got in. I was like, see?
Jag: So why was it only Syracuse?
Michael: Well, I think I was always interested in broadcasting, and I was the classic story we've heard so many times from other broadcasters where I was 9, 10 years old, listening to Casey Kasem in my room and recording it and I would rewind him and hear the way he set up songs. And then I would try it myself and record it at a different one. I did that since I was a little kid. I always was interested in, really, radio alone. I was not interested in television for some reason, because I think TV, like, you have to be, like, a grown up.
Jag: Put on the nice clothes.
Michael: Yeah, it's a serious thing. Unless you're doing, like, a Letterman show, and there aren't too many of those around.
Jag: Right.
Michael: Jimmy Kimmel, Jimmy Fallon stuff. You're on TV, and it's a serious delivery, and I definitely didn't want that. I knew I didn't have that in me, but yeah, so I ended up going to Syracuse, and how did I get involved in WJPZ? I don't think that the trailer was unpacked yet with all of my stuff moving into Flint. When I told my mom and dad, I was like, hey, I got to go and find the radio station. And, oh, I knew all about it. Absolutely.
Jag: So you knew about it before you got there?
Michael: I didn't know where it was. I went down to the Watson area, figured it out, kind of, and I rang the bell, and who came out but BB Good. So Sharon Goodman was the first face that I ever saw at Z89. Can you pick a better person to welcome a freshman to the organization than BB Good?
Jag: You and Dion Summers have that in common. She was the first face you both saw. Yeah.
Michael: I mean, you can't get a better start to a Z89 career.
Jag: So you walk in, you've got the amazing BB Good there. How do you get started with doing the overnights and that whole deal?
Michael: I couldn't get going quick enough. As a matter of fact, when I arrived, they had already gotten my FCC license, because that was something that was required back then. But I wanted to get it done ASAP, and my first overnight was October 7, and that was my 18th birthday.
Jag: Okay.
Michael: Yeah, I got cleared for overnights, and I couldn't believe that I was actually on the radio. I couldn't believe it.
Jag: So you were always on the music side. I know some guys we've talked to and girls I've talked to always want to be on the sports side or various things. But you were always the hardcore music guy, right?
Michael: I mean, would I have taken a job doing play by play for the Red Sox? Sure.
Jag: You are a Boston guy after all. Yeah.
Michael: I just knew that that was not in the cards to me. I didn't think I had that level of talent, and I didn't really have that level of sports knowledge, even though I'm an avid fan of football and baseball. But I think that you have to know these sports inside and out. I definitely couldn't do it for basketball or hockey or anything like that. I think that is never something that I realistically ever dreamed of doing.
Michael: It was always the music side.
Jag: Got you. So tell me how you kind of rose through the ranks of the station and the different things you did there.
Michael: Well, I think I just dove in as hard as you could, spent a lot of free time there, and I think that's what I knew that this is what I really wanted to do for a living. Like, when you find something that you're working at and it doesn't feel like work, you found it. You know what I mean? I just had this conversation with some young people the other day. It's really the secret to life, isn't it, is finding something that you truly enjoy doing, spending as much time as possible, doing it, and then later on, figuring out a way to make money with it.
Jag: Exactly.
Michael: The money won't come right away, right? But it goes for anything. I mean, no matter what it is you love to do, somehow you can turn that into an occupation. And if you can do that, that's true happiness.
Jag: So you were on air at the station, and by the way, your class, 95, is definitely the most active among alumni, and it's like a Murderer's Row. I hate to use the Yankees reference, but a Murderer's Row of just unbelievable All Stars from that class in 95. Take me back then to some of the people you were working with.
Michael: Yeah, that class was stacked with talent. It really was. Steve Donovan, I don't think he actually started his freshman year, but he was definitely in the mix. There Jeff Dauler, who went on to do some amazing things in radio. Dion Summers. Of course. Jeff Wade. Trying to think of the others off the top of my head. Oh, Governor D Redman.
Jag: Yeah.
Michael:Marvin Nugent, Big Daddy. Honestly, like you said, it's truly like some real All Stars as far as that particular era.
Jag: So were you doing Mornings on air, Chief Announcer? PD? Was it strictly on air roles at the station?
Michael: I eventually got cleared for everything. Steve Donovan and I ended up doing Crazy Morning crew together, which is really kind of cool because 20 years later, we were going up against each other in Mornings, right? So Donovan would be doing Mornings at Light 105 in Providence and me doing Mornings at Fun 107. And just funny that the history goes back so far.
Jag: Who won more often than not?
Michael: Well, he was in a much bigger station. Okay, he definitely won with the range, for sure, but Fun 107 doesn't really serve. We can be heard in Providence, but that's not what we're about.
Jag: Fair enough. Any more memories from the morning show with Donovan? Or should I say Abe Froman?
Michael: Abe is the sausage king of Chicago.
Jag: That come to mind? I mean, I can't imagine how hilarious it must have been to be a fly on the wall with the two of you doing mornings together.
Michael: He is so funny. One of the funniest people I know. No, I think the biggest memories I have from the morning show and I know he told this story when he sat down with you is when his brother came up, and I'm not even sure if I could tell the story, but we did it on the air, but he was Spunky The Midget Wrestler.
Jag: Right.
Michael: I know that you're not supposed to say that word, but back then it wasn't a thing.
Jag: Different time. Different time.
Michael: But of course he was not. And when you're 19 years old, those things seem really funny. But having Jeff Dauler involved in the morning show, another talented person. Such a funny guy, too. We got into a lot of trouble together. Bette Kestin, who was older than we were, but of course, there was the infamous let's get drunk on the radio and make it a bit thing. But it was all legit because we had a police officer there, right.
Jag: About drunk driving and breathalyzer and all that, right?
Michael: Yes.
Jag: Okay.
Michael: To demonstrate the effects of alcohol and how quickly you can become impaired.
Jag: So part of what I do in this podcast is my show prep, is basically to call up classmates and ask stories. If I said, Road trip to Toronto with a girlfriend, would that mean anything to you?
Michael: Yes.
Jag: I did talk to Steve Donovan the other night, and he mentioned that you pulled this real baller move with your college girlfriend, that you were going to take her to Phantom of the Opera in Toronto. But brought a couple of your buddies along with you, which may not have been the best move. What can you tell me about that story?
Michael: Yeah, I don't really know what I was thinking. It was probably not the best choice, but yeah, somehow we got these tickets to Phantom of the Opera in Toronto. She is all excited about it, obviously, and we had four tickets or something like that. And so I invited Donovan and my other buddy. So picture, like, what she's probably thinking of is like, it's going to be a romantic weekend getaway to Toronto to see Phantom, and ended up bringing my buddy who I went to high school with. And we ended up being roommates in college, too. And Donovan, that's a long seven hour ride.
Michael: And then we get there and I never forget it felt like it was so appropriate because, of course, his name on the air was Abe Froman, the Sausage King of Chicago.
Jag: Right.
Michael: We lived that moment when we went to the CN Tower in Toronto.
Jag: Oh, my G-d.
Michael: And we took the elevator all the way up to the top, and we had dinner at that. It rotates, and so you can always see a different part of the city. So here we are, like four, well three, knuckleheads and my girlfriend at the time. Right. Yeah. We're at the CN Tower, and he's acting like Abe Froman. We had no business eating at this restaurant. I don't know how we paid for it.
Jag: Did you have the snooty Mater D from Ferris Bueller's Day Off?
Michael:Probably, yeah. But that was quite a time.
Jag: You have had an amazing career and stability in your career that a lot of folks in this industry have not had, which I want to get to in a second. But what lessons did you take with you from JPZ that served you so well in your career so far Mike?
Michael: Man, those are the real things. The radio lessons are valuable and continue to be valuable, and I share Dave Gorab advice with the young personalities all the time. So Dave Gorab and Hal Rood. I never went to school with Hal Rood, but he lives very close to me here. And he was definitely an influence on me even back then when he wasn't even there. But Larry Ross, I mean, the lessons I learned from these guys, 100% are being shared with young personalities on Fun 107.
Michael: Those lessons that I learned in the hallway at Watson. of course, one thought per break. I mean, that's the biggest thing, right? That's everything, right? But my point is that the radio lessons, as valuable as they were, were far secondary to the management lessons that I learned. The ability to, or lack of ability in my case, sometimes to work with others on a common cause. When you have a vision about how to get to a certain place and we all want to go to this place, but they have other ways that they wanted to go to try to work through that. You know what I mean? Those are lessons that are better learned in a safe environment like Z89 than when you're on the big bad world making those mistakes and you can get fired.
Michael: I guess those are the real lessons that I really learned. One of the lessons that Dave Gorab taught me, and I use this all the time on a daily basis as management here, is praise very publicly and correct very privately. And that builds loyalty because people really appreciate that. I think about you yourself. I definitely do. And when my boss gives me a big pat on the back in front of the staff, it means something.
Michael: We're all humans, right? And I would hate to be corrected in front of the staff. So you just treat people like that. And I think that's probably the biggest lesson I learned from Z89.
Jag: So let's talk about your career after Syracuse. Take me through your journey since graduation.
Michael: My first job in radio was when I was still there at Syracuse of working at Y94 FM, B104.7. We helped launch that. That was the era of launching. One name that I don't know how I could have not mentioned Jordan Guagliumi.
Jag: Oh, yeah.
Michael: So he was a part of the Z89 thing and then the B 104.7 thing. So learned a lot with Y94 FM and then ended up working at a little station in New Hampshire for a couple of minutes until Z89 connections came calling again and BB Good was working down here at Fun 107. And I remember it was one Christmas break. You catch rides home from people when you're younger.
Jag: Yeah, shout out to Emily Zizza, class of 2000, who gave me a ride home before I had a car on campus. There you go.
Michael: So we were going home for the holidays and BB as a senior was working at Rock 107 in Utica. Yes, she's a full time student, but also a full time night jock because.
Jag: She was just that good and still is.
Michael: What is that? So she's living the life as a Rock 107 night jock. Not even graduated yet. So it's Donovan and myself, and I don't know who is driving, but when we were picking up or going home with BB, and we stopped at Rock 107. And so I remember it was like a Sunday or something, and she was doing a weekend shift and the PD was in the building on a Sunday. And I'm like, that is weird. You know what I mean? Like, what PD is in the building on a Sunday?
Michael:Anyway, Rock 107 was a sister station on Fun 107.
Jag: Okay.
Michael: That PD ended up getting transferred to Fun 107.
Jag: Oh, wow.
Michael: So I had met my future boss that day, and now that knowing him over the years, of course he was there on a Sunday because he was that dedicated, but met him, his name was JR.. And BB called me and said, listen, there's a promotions director opening at Fun 107 and I think he'd be perfect for it. Why don't you come down? So I came down and I met with everybody, and they were a little nervous because I looked like I was about 14 years old at the time.
Jag: The good news is, at point in your career, you haven't aged a bit.
Michael: Thank you very much. But no, I somehow convinced them that I should work here and they hired me. And for the most part, I did leave for little projects. I did worked on a morning show in Boston for a year.
Jag: Which show was that?
Michael: At Star 93.7. I worked with Ralphie Marino and Heather Gersten.
Jag: Okay.
Michael: Yeah. Other than that little quick Boston thing, I've been here for 27 years.
Jag: And you are Mornings and PD. Now.
Michael: Yeah, we don't call them PD's anymore. I'm a Director of content, which means that I actually oversee the news talk station here in the building as well. So it might have been known before as like, an operations manager.
Jag: Well, because Director of Content is probably more accurate in 2023 because so much of it is online as well as just on air. Right?
Michael:That's a big, big part of it now. Big part of it. Every personality in the company is expected to write two pieces of content per day. And so what I always talk about is we spend so much time creating content for the radio, so why would we want to do that content for the radio and have it go out there just for those seconds and have that be the end of it, disappears and is gone forever. Why would you want that to happen when you work so hard to get that content? share it online, put it up on the website, share it on social and do it all and it lives forever.
Michael: So I try not to have it be like, I got to do my blogs, right? These are your articles, these are your stories that can live on forever. And they're consumed when the audience is ready to consume it on demand So it gets out there to so many more people like that. And we're all driven by ego in this business. Of course, when people really start to get that there's real buy in, because, of course, you would want as many people as possible to see the content that you work on.
Jag: I think that is a testament to your skills as a leader, because that is the best way I've ever heard the importance of putting your content online explained. I can't tell you how many jocks I worked with in my career and sometimes I self, I'm like, oh yeah, I got to do this blog post and I got to cut this up into a podcast or whatever it is. But that's perfect. You want this content to live and be available for somebody who may not have been in the car at 0845 a.m when you did this killer break.
Michael: What are the chances that they were really? When you think about it, it's probably slim to none that they actually heard what you did. But this way you're taking your best content and making sure you're putting it right in their face. I mean, if they're a P1 listener of your radio station, they're definitely following you on Facebook, right? And they're definitely going to your sites and they'll definitely want to click on and see what you've got going on and you're able to share that content when it's good for them.
Jag: We are starting to scratch the surface of something that I've asked all of my guests that are still working in radio in. So let me transition here. You're in this every day. You're in the trenches. You have the role where you're doing this. There are a lot of naysayers about radio. Radio has its critics. What does radio need to do to continue to stay important in 2023 and beyond?
Michael: They need to stay local. Local.
Jag: As he cups his hands over his mouth and screams, for those of you listening.
Michael: If you didn't hear me in the back, you've got to stay local. So what I always say to the people who work here is I want you to do breaks that could not be done on any other radio station. Those are the gold moments, is when you are doing breaks that you could not get away with. Like we mentioned, the Donovan thing at Providence, my show, where I do my show in Massachusetts here on the south coast is a completely different feel than if I was going to be doing this show in Providence.
Jag: And that's what, less than an hour away? About an hour away from New Bedford.
Michael:Providence 30 minutes up the street. Yeah, but it's a different culture. Providence, while it is so close, has nothing to do nobody in New Bedford or Fall River cares about Providence. It might as well be a different country. So you've got to stay local. So doing your show and doing breaks about the Kardashians is not going to work.
Jag: Go to TMZ for that.
Michael: So many other people can do such a better job than you can at that. But nobody's going to beat me about talking about the new restaurant that opened up in New Bedford or where to get the best caciola sandwiches. You probably don't even know what a caciola sandwich is, do you?
Jag: I don't, no. And I'm from north of Boston, so explain.
Michael:Right. And I am, too. I'm from north of Boston. Never heard of any of this Portuguese food before I moved down here. It's like a Portuguese sausage sandwich.
Jag: Okay.
Michael: But that is a connection that you can make with the audience. When you can connect with them at that level, that's when you can really win. And that is what's going to save radio our relationships like that. You cannot do this cookie cutter stuff because I can get that anywhere.
Jag: Yeah, I think that was the big fail in radio probably ten plus years ago when portable people meters came in and they said, oh, shut up and play the music. Well, yeah. Why would you listen to somebody else's playlist when Spotify and Pandora are coming along?
Michael:Exactly. But now it's what's between the records that really can set you apart in a way that's great for personalities. I definitely went through those years where shut up and play the music was the thing.
Jag: Right.
Michael: And it was how do you say the words? You try to work on your inflection and these are legitimate things to think about and do, but working on your reflection and pace and things like that, but man, it can get a little boring. But no, it's the stuff between the records now that sets you apart from you can god, you can hear the new song anywhere. I can pull up the song in 2 seconds and listen to it on YouTube. But what you're doing is collecting all of these songs and filtering out the other ones. You're listening to the bad stuff so that they don't have to.
Jag: And you're using it to complement what you're doing between the songs.
Michael:Exactly.
Jag: Kid Michael Rock before we wrap up any other memories from WJPZ that come to mind, you want to mention?
Michael: The biggest thing that we ever did when I was there was in the summer of 93. I actually spent the summer at Syracuse, and that was one of the best summers of my life. And we had so much fun. Bette Kestin, Jeff Dauler. Jordan Guagliumi was there. Tim McCubrey was the GM, but Jordan somehow got a car, a 1993 Geo Tracker to give away, and he sold the promotion to Coca Cola. We got the Z89 Coca Cola Super Stickers.
Michael: Man, we were a big time radio station for some kids hanging around at a college in the summertime doing this. We had no business doing this. Driving around and spotting buffer stickers and doing all this stuff. I mean, it was very impressive stuff. I mean, Jordan really nailed that one, man. That was incredible. That was probably the best thing we ever did when I was there. But really learn from some of the best mentors that anybody could have had.
Michael: We mentioned all those how we were stacked that freshman year, but probably the reason it ended up being that way was because of the mentors that we had. All of us had those same mentors. Dave Gorab and Kelly Sutton and Matt Friedman. Can you pick a better cast of characters than Jay Nachlis and all these people? John Marsh teaching us radio at that course, so we had so much knowledge at our disposal. So I guess it's no surprise that we would all flourish in that environment. Who wouldn't? I hate mentioning names because you forget inevitably names, but like Beth Gorab, Beth Russell, Jen Nycz.
Michael: You just know you're missing people, but some real dear friends. Bette Kestin, just an incredible friend that we don't talk nearly enough because we're grown ups and we have busy lives. But you still know if I picked the phone call, Bette right now would pick it up like that as if it were 25 years ago.
Jag: All of those people you've mentioned, I've recorded podcast episodes with, and your name has come up in every single one. So please know the feeling is mutual.
Michael: Oh, that's nice.
Jag: That is just emblematic of what we've talked about, as you've heard on the previous episodes of this podcast, is that mentorship and that paying it forward, whether it was class of 92, 93, paying it forward to 95, or in my case, 99, paying it forward to 02, we paid it forward to 05. And it just continues to this day as you've listened to some of the alumni that have recently graduated and are still there at the radio station. So thank you for being part of this radio station. Thank you for continuing to fight the good fight in local radio and appreciate you coming on today.
Michael: Jag thank you so much, man. Really appreciate you having me on.