You'd be hard pressed to find someone who understands the radio industry as well as today's guest: Jay Nachlis from the Class of 1994. Like many of us, this San Francisco native came to Syracuse with plans of being the next great sportscaster. But as luck would have it, he fell in love with the music at WJPZ, eventually becoming the station's program director. In fact, he's the PD that first brought Selector music scheduling software to the station!
Jay tells us about the CHR landscape in the early 90's, including a very awkward situation when the station brought Naughty By Nature to a Syracuse club for an all ages show!
Today's guest spent 25 years in commercial radio - staring at Y94 in Syracuse, then crisscrossing the country with stops in San Francisco, Buffalo, Detroit, and Raleigh. Jay tells us about the lessons he learned at Z89 that served him well in radio, and in his current role as VP, Consultant, and Marketing Director at Coleman Insights.
We spend a fair amount of time at the end of the episode on radio's future. Will the industry reinvest in itself? What can it learn from the compelling content that's now on YouTube, from creators like Rhett and Link, and Mr. Beast? If you don't know who they are, Jay will blow your mind with what they've accomplished. In many ways, they're doing what radio stations have always done!
Radio is still being done well in many places though. Jay tells us about Jumpin Jeff Walker on KRZ in Scranton. He's been the afternoon guy since the 80's, but his content resonates just as much now, as it did then. We'll hear about one break in particular.
Jay admits that he stepped away from the WJPZ family for a few years, but now he's back every year. Hear why he calls the station "the gift that keeps on giving."
Referenced in this episode:
Jay's blog on Mr. Beast: https://colemaninsights.com/coleman-insights-blog/brand-management-lessons-from-mrbeast
Rhett and Link YouTube Page: https://www.youtube.com/user/RHETTANDLINK
Join Us in Syracuse for Banquet on March 4th: https://bit.ly/WJPZ50BanquetTickets
The WJPZ at 50 Podcast is produced by Jon Gay '02 and JAG in Detroit Podcasts
JAG: Welcome to WJPZ at 50. I am Jon Jag Gay. Today I'm joined by an alum who I've only gotten to know as a friend in recent years, but I really enjoyed getting to know his backstory and hanging out with him everywhere from Syracuse to Nashville, Tennessee. And that will be Jay Nachlis from the class of 94. He is currently the VP, consultant and marketing director at Coleman Insights in Raleigh, North Carolina. I think I got all that right. Welcome to the show, Jay.
Jay: Thanks, JAG. Appreciate you having me.
JAG: When you go to Syracuse, there are a lot of New York kids, a lot of Boston kids, a lot of Pennsylvania kids. You're a West coast guy. How did it be that you came out ending up at Syracuse?
Jay: The grand Dreams, which ended up being delusions, of being a sports broadcaster. Like so many of us,
JAG: Oh my G-d, that's half the podcast guests so far, myself included.
Jay: I know. Yeah. I dreamed of sports broadcasting and plus I wanted to get away. I love her, but I needed to get away from my mother as far as possible, so I went to the other coast almost.
JAG: You end up at Syracuse, and how do you end up at JPZ?
Jay: This is a story you've probably heard before too. So the sports broadcasting thing, I thought I was gonna get it twice. So when I was 15, I got this internship, which I applied for a position at KNBR at San Francisco, which aired my beloved San Francisco Giants and I had again, dreams that ended up being delusions ,of working at Candlestick Park in the booth with fellow Syracuse or at that time, just Syracuse alum. Hank Greenwald. And so I applied for that gig and didn't get it. I was 15 and a half and they ended up giving me this internship at a station called X100, which was an Emmis CHR station.
And I was really angry about it. I told my mom, I don't wanna do this. And of course I ended up loving it cuz you know, the day I got there, Will Smith was in the lobby at the time, known as the Fresh Prince , and I ended up just being completely starstruck. They let me do research, board operating, promotions.
It was just this unbelievable, where the guy at KNBR ended up just making copies. Literally, it was like a Saturday Night Live skit. So I was just so fortunate. But still when I got to Syracuse, I still wanted to do sports broadcasting. Went to WAER, like so many of us did, found out that the chances of ever being on the air there were almost nil.
Walked over to JPZ and asked what are the chances of being on the air here? And they're like, I don't know. What are you doing at midnight
JAG: Sounds like a very familiar story. So you end up walking into the station, getting on air at the station, and what else did you do there? Take me through your time at the station.
Jay: So I, I just loved being on the air at JPZ. And then between, I guess it was sophomore and junior year is when I became program director.
And that was just, that summer was so much fun. I stayed in Syracuse and programmed all that summer and just loved it. So yeah, it was basically air talent to program director.
JAG: Because you're such a music guy and a radio guy, I've gotta ask you, what songs from that era playing at JPZ are there, that stick out to you, in your memory?
Jay: Oh, there's lots of 'em. The early nineties was a funny time for CHR because you had this kind of blend of pure pop songs. You had some hip hop, like we, I remember Naughty by Nature, like OPP and Hip Hop Hooray. I just have this memory of sitting on the couch with my roommates and putting the hands back and forth.
Hey, ho. Hey. And we actually presented a show with Naughty by Nature at some club in Syracuse. It ended up being a total disaster, not by our fault, but we ended up, we were watching the show from the sound board and all these parents, brought their kids or dropped their kids off, because I think it was a school night. And you were waiting and come it's like 11:00, 11:15 at night and they still haven't taken the stage. And I remember John Marsh, my friend in music director, he literally, he goes up to Treach from Naughty by Nature and he says, come on man, the kids are waiting.
You gotta take the stage. And Treach. He goes, man, I ain't takin' the stage til we get paid! It turned out the club owner hadn't paid them yet and they weren't gonna take the stage until then. And so all these parents came and picked up their kids places like half filled now, and they finally took the stage.
JAG: You have had quite the illustrious career since graduating. You've been in many markets at many stations. Give us the quick tour, if you would, of how you got your first gig upon graduation and where you've been since.
Jay: So there was the internship first in San Francisco at X100, and then like many of us, I got a position at Y94FM while I was at JPZ. And that was one where literally I sent at least six air checks to Tom Langmeyer before he finally hired me. I would not stop pestering him. And he eventually gave me, okay, kid, here's midnight to six on Friday and Saturday nights.
JAG: Just like at JPZ. What are you doing tonight at midnight, right?
Jay: Yeah. And it's funny too, because I was in a fraternity at Syracuse and so I'd leave, just when everyone was starting to get wasted on Friday and Saturday nights, there was me getting in my car at 11:20 PM and driving to plumb to, to work at New City. And I did that for quite some time, once they finally hired me.
And then when I graduated, I went back to, so this was December 93, and went back to San Francisco, didn't have any job. I was applying everywhere I possibly could. And then something happened to the overnight person at Y94 and they called me back to work full-time in Syracuse. So I came back to work at Y94 and then worked my way up there.
So literally it was almost every shift. I think it was overnights to nights to afternoons, and then APD- music director. And then there was a moment in 95, 96 where Alan Furst was the program director, and so I was his APD and we worked on flipping what's now Hot 1079, which was country before that, or no, oldies before that, we flipped that station and I was working at Y and then I got hired at K101 in San Francisco, which was amazing cuz that was a station that I had grown up listening to.
And so I went back to my hometown, did K101 and then it was Buffalo for a station called Alice at 92 9. So Pop alternative slash Modern AC station then went to Detroit and programmed another Alice Station, Alice 106.7, which was more of a early Rock leaning adult hit station. And then I got to Raleigh, which is where I was for the longest time, and I programed a station called 96 Rock there.
And then I left radio for a few years. and then five years ago came to Coleman to do research.
JAG: What has your role been at Coleman? Having had the experience both on air and the programming side?
Jay: Really valuable. Most people at Coleman, there are some of us, we come from different backgrounds for sure, but I come from the deepest radio background.
A number of us have had experience in the radio industry, but I think having that, so I had to learn a lot of the analytics side, even though I'd had a lot of exposure to research in my radio career. I needed a lot of training on that side, but the fact that I had been on the radio side so deeply, I think, it's the speaking the language part.
So you know, you can really understand what programmers and brand managers are going through from that side. when you've been there yourself, to me, that's one of the most valuable things.
JAG: I've sat in your chair. I understand what you're up against. Hey, let me here. Let me help you work through these issues you might be having.
Jay: Part of the job, for example, when you're doing a music test for somebody is you're getting their database, right? It's send me Selector or Music Master, right? And so you're helping them through that. You're helping them sort categories. And that radio experience really comes into play, but also just understanding the dynamic of their day-to-day job on a bit of a deeper level is really helpful. Whether you're doing your perceptual study, music test, focus group, anything.
JAG: What lessons did you learn at JPZ on the air as a program director you think that have served you well, Jay, in your time, both in commercial radio and in the consulting side of things?
Jay: The structure is the biggest thing. Because from the get-go, it's funny to think about. Like today there is probably less air checking being done in professional radio, commercial radio, than has ever been done before. And some of that is just the stresses on the industry and people's titles and them wearing so many hats.
But it was drilled into us at JPZ, just how important that was. Like, no, you have to be air checked and you have to air check people and you learn how to do a music meeting and decide what goes on the air. And you learn the sales dynamic and the dynamic between departments and how to write a promo, how to produce it.
All of that stuff was learned first at JPZ for me. And even perfectionism, like in the sense that, you don't put crap out. You better get it right before you put it out. And you know what? I don't know what College Station is so intensely focused on that level of perfectionism. I'm not sure, but mine was.
JAG: It's funny just to see some of these same stories that come up with all these different guests on the podcast of the things they learned at JPZ and the lessons that they learned.
Jay: Being a program director at W J P Z is not an easy task. It's probably your first time being a program director.
It may be your first time leading people in any sort of supervisory role, particularly that many people. And in some respects, and I can say this with the benefit of having worked as a program director of commercial radio stations for over 25 years, in some respects, it's harder than a commercial radio station.
Part of that is it's the first time that you deal with conflict management and conflict resolution. One of the things that you need as a manager is empathy and it's a hard skill. Understanding what other people feel and are going through in their perspective in situations and something when you're younger that so most people does not come easily.
Rather than if you have a disagreement with somebody, you dig your heels in and you get angry and you don't budge from your position. And some of that definitely happened at WJPZ with me and some of that conflict led me to separating from the WJPZ family for some time. But, with the benefit of perspective years later, even those experiences make you better and you realize that later and with time, not only did I realize how valuable that was for me, those experiences, even the challenging ones at WJPZ, but I definitely recognized the importance of having WJPZ in my life.
That grew exponentially as the years went on.
JAG: Wow. Jay, are there any significant events in the history of J P Z that you were part of that you remember fondly?
Jay: I'll tell you something that I'm really proud of. When I was there in the beginning, the way that we chose what music to play was the index card and paper clip system. You familiar with that?
JAG: No. Explain that to me. I feel like when I got there in 98, there might have been the last remnants of that. So walk me through that. If you would.
Jay: There shouldn't have been, but we'll get to that. So if you were at JPZ at that time in the early nineties and you were on the air, you had a list of currents that were on sheets of paper that were laminated or, put in a sleeve that was on the glass in front of you and they were color coded.
So you had, your A's, B's, C's, and whatnot. And you tracked them with a paperclip. So after you played one, you moved the paperclip down and the next time that came on the clock, cause that was the other thing that was in front of you, was the clock for the hour. And so when an A came up, you played the A, and then you moved the paperclip down. The next time A came up, that was the next one you played. So it was always in that order.
JAG: This is pre selector and music scheduling software and all that. This is by pen and paper and index card. Okay.
Jay: We're getting to that yet. Then you had a box of index cards. and they had colors on them as well and they corresponded to the gold categories or the recurrents.
And if I remember correctly, you had some more flexibility with that. So you could go through. And if for example you said, look, I want to play Mc Hammer, not Michael Bolton, after Strike It Up by Black Box. Feel free, go to the next card. And that was the way we chose music. So I felt that, as the mission of JPZ is we're here to train broadcasters and make it the most real-world experience as possible. Of course that's why the station is CHR.
And so I felt, at that time, the radio industry was not using index cards and paperclips anymore, and I felt like it was probably time for us to move to some scheduling software. And so I think John and I, my music director John and I, we applied for a grant from RCS, which is the maker of Selector, and we were awarded a grant. And so it was during my time there that I brought Selector to W J P Z.
JAG: That's amazing. And that's why I love doing this podcast is those little nuggets of the station's history that may have been temporarily lost that we're uncovering here. Jay is the program director that brought selector to the radio station.
That's fantastic. I love that story. Are there relationships from J PZ that you take with you to this day, people that you're still in touch with or any stories you wanna share about them?
Jay: Oh, definitely. I was really fortunate. It's such a staggering level of alumnus that we have coming outta JPZ, but the all-Star team that was there at that time was ballistic
And for example, Dave Gorab, of course was my GM, and now he's one of the heads of Sirius XM and I was the one that was air checking Dion Summers, who of course now head of Urban for Sirius XM. And Kendall B. He and I, this is a funny story. Kendall B and I hosted a short-lived program together called ZTV. You never heard of it?
JAG: No. Now you've piqued my curiosity.
Jay: We decided, cuz of course music videos were still big back then. I think it was Kendall's idea. Kendall goes, hey, you and me should co-host a video show. And so it aired on the university TV station, which was right across the street, you know the street right across the hall at Watson.
We were able to get some videos from the record labels, and so we would take those videos, we would host our show. Our theme song, by the way, I think was Check the Rhyme from Tribe Called Quest. We had a great intro where we literally, Kendall and I like walk. In slow motion outside Watson into the hall, and then it was us sitting down.
It was very nineties. It was very cool. At least we thought it was. Kendall will probably not confirmed nor deny the statement, but I feel like we didn't have, if I remember correctly, we didn't have enough videos that were sent to us, like promotional videos to actually make a show. So we may or may not have actually recorded videos off of MTV and then superimposed the ZTV logo we had over the MTV logo.
JAG: And I think we're probably about 30 years out about past the statute of limitations Jay. I think we're okay here.
Jay: More than likely, and who knows where those tapes are? Kendall and I, neither of us know what happened to the tapes. I just have the great memories of that and Kendall and so many great people there, but, one friendship that's become very special is Jeanne Schad, who she and I were not close then.
But I guess about 10 years ago we reconnected, and then there were just some shared experiences in particular, probably around the same time she and her husband John, adopted a transgender child, and one of my kids came out as gay. and then told us that they were transitioning. So that shared experience was like just this connection going on at the same time.
And she's just so smart and so kind, and I've just come to really like her and her family. And so every time I go out to, almost every time I go out to Los Angeles, I go and see her and her family.
JAG: Jeanne is wonderful. I know that when I was dealing with some career question issues, she was one of the first people that reached out and I picked her brain for advice. You're right. She's so smart. She's so wonderful. Just so many people in the Alumni association. I'm really glad you mentioned her. Any other funny stories from your time at JPZ? I love the Naughty by Nature and the nightclub story, but any other stories on or off the air that you look back on years later and laugh?
Jay: There were a lot of concerts obviously that we went to. I remember there was a show at the state fairgrounds, and it was Richard Marx. Tom Cochrane opening. And so we went to the show and we were taken backstage, and Tom Cochrane is sitting, and it's as Canadian a thing as you've ever seen, he's got a cooler full of Moosehead.
JAG: The beer.
Jay: The beer, yeah. And at that time we weren't of age yet, and Tom Cochrane's, like you boys want a beer? Naturally we said yes, and illegally on behalf of WJPZ had some Moosehead Lager with Tom Cochrane. That was a fun night.
And I think it was that summer. There's been so many great promotions at JPZ, as giving away cars and trips. So the promotion that I put together, I think that summer that I was PD, was called, Get a Clue. It was like a trip somewhere that we were giving away, but you had to get these clues throughout and then we gave it away.
This thing where we revealed certain squares and pictures as he went along until it finally got to the winner. It was so convoluted. It was one of those that like, sounds good in your head. Oh, get a clue. What a great name for a promotion. And looking back on it now, and knowing what I know now about how listeners consume radio and their lack of attention spans. I would've never, ever run that promotion again.
JAG: World's greatest media classroom. You learned that lesson in that classroom.
Jay: Don't do a promotion called Get a clue, that's got too many visuals and is too complicated. Exactly.
JAG: Jay, I do wanna ask, from the position where you sit now at Coleman and having had all this experience on air and programming, what is your opinion of where radio is at as we get into 2023 here?
Jay: It's not as doom and gloom as I guess some would have you believe, but where it's at, is it a crossroads of investment in itself or not.
And there's a couple of things. Radio, like many industries. You really see it in radio, is it gets stuck in the same habits that it's had over many years. And there's a difference between doing things that are best practices and not being willing to step out of the box and do some different things.
So radio really needs to start innovating where it can and taking some chances, going out and finding talent that are non-traditional radio. And listening to them, listening to younger listeners and determining, what they want out of the medium. Because I just think that we're not inviting them to the medium the way that we need to is one of the biggest issues.
And from a marketing standpoint, that's a real big problem. We have a measurement in research that we call unaided awareness. And that's a simple way of saying, on a top-of-mind basis, we ask people, how many radio stations, talking specific about radio brand, how many radio stations can you name, whether or not you listen to them?
And that is something, over time is declining precipitously. And ultimately, people are less likely to think of the brand. And so some of it, How much of it can we save from younger listeners? Can we get them or can we not get them? But we have to at least try, right?
That's my point. We have to at least try.
JAG: It's the idea that the demos are getting older and folks that grew up with radio are getting older, and whether it's millennial or Gen Z, or Dare I even say now, Gen Alpha, after them, didn't grow up with radio the way a lot of us did. And there are so many more options and it's just gotta be hard to compete with those other options. And how does radio do it?
Jay: Some of the ways that, that I was just talking about, if you look for example, at some of the entertainment options on YouTube. My kid's, my 19 year old's favorite morning show is Rhett and Link, which is a YouTube show. And they have millions of followers. They have their own convention for God's sakes.
They go out on tour! And you know how long the show is? 20 minutes.
JAG: Huh. Bite size.
Jay: Bite size. So he can listen to the entire show every single day and he doesn't miss a day. And then they have offshoots, you know they have members of the cast that do their own shows. But the point is, this is the show that's can't miss listening for him or viewing, depending on whether or not he's watching it on YouTube. This is actually gonna be the blog tomorrow, a blog abou Mr. Beast. Do you know who Mr. Beast is?
JAG: No, but the blog will be out when this publishes. So we'll link to it in the show notes. Tell me who Mr. Beast is.
Jay: Mr. Beast is a guy with a hundred million followers on YouTube. And his story is amazing. He started on YouTube when he was, I was like 13 years ago.
He's still only 24 years old. But this guy has so much money and he figured out the formula of making these viral videos. But what he does is radio stunts. He literally does like last person to stay in the circle,which is no different than like last put to put the hand on the car.
Last to keep your lips locked. He does all these stunts. And guess what? Kids go absolutely bananas for them. Cuz why? Cuz they've always gone crazy for them, right? And then what he did was he got these companies to start sponsoring him and started doing all these endorsements and then he created this basically a philanthropy wing where he goes out and gives all of this money away.
But these companies are paying him to go give all of this money. So he'll do stuff like he'll surprise someone in a town, and just give away $10,000 just because. This kind of thing. And now he started his own burger chain called Mr. Beast Burger. And it started out as being done at Ghost Kitchens around the country.
And then you'd get it through like Door Dash or Uber Eats or whatever, and it would show up as Mr. Beast Burger. In September he opens up his first brick and mortar location. and it's in a mall in New Jersey. Like the newer mall in New Jersey. Jag, I am telling you, watch this documentary. So this team of the, this pair of YouTubers, which have a great following themselves.
Of course, they have a million followers. They do this documentary on the opening of Mr. Beast Burger in New Jersey. And he comes to the thing. And the thing that fascinated me about this 24 hour look at Mr. Beast wasn't so much his background and all that, which is fascinating in itself. But it just focused on the 24 hours before they opened up this location and how involved he was and the decisions that he made along the way, which is really interesting.
But if you look at the number of people that are there that drove from, some people drove cross country to this thing. And they're screaming. It's like the Beatles.
JAG: NSync Concert. New Kids on the Block. Pick your time, yeah.
Jay: It's staggering. And the fandom and the passion for it is just outrageous.
And I couldn't help but think to myself like, that was our game! Radio stations used to do those stunts and we used to grab that attention and he's basically taken some of the stuff that, that radio was known for. It was unique, it was always fun. It was, totally relevant. And he's doing a really good job of that on YouTube.
So I think, radio just has to first of all attract some of these people over into the platform because they also know, really well, in an organic and grassroots effort, how to get attention.
JAG: So the content is similar, it's just that the delivery mechanism is different, is what you're saying?
Jay: No, that's exactly right. And I suppose that radio, in many respects, it depends on where you're looking. There are some radio people and radio brands that are doing a great job with social media. But there's certainly always room to do much more, and I just see this mastery going on out there with some of these talent that are on YouTube.
JAG: Fish where the fish are and then bring them back to radio, is what it sounds like you're saying. And is there a need to invest locally in radio as well, as opposed to McDonald's and Walmarting all of radio across the country?
Jay: That is just so important. The local angle for sure. To me that's the biggest differentiator. Going forward when possible, is to be as hyper-local as possible.
It's really interesting to look at, up in Baltimore, the Baltimore Sun, I think is the big newspaper, right? That's been there forever. Are you familiar with the Baltimore banner?
JAG: No.
Jay: I think this happened about a year ago. This guy decided that he was going to take on the Baltimore Sun by being hyper local. Okay. And he created this digital newspaper and hired all these people. It's in a way, it's like what The Athletic did. It's almost like in reverse what The Athletic did to local sports writers and grabbed all of these people to do the local beat for The Athletic for digital sports coverage. Baltimore Banner went out and found all these people because what happened, the Baltimore Sun and all these newsrooms around the country are cutting staff. And so he's like, I'm gonna go find all of these people that know how to report local news and I'm gonna hyper localize it.
And he's created this hyper-local news outlet in Baltimore. I really hope it works because to me that should be the future.
So one other quick story about localism. So my family owned a furniture store in Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania. Okay. For many years. For decades, it was called Nachlis Furniture.
We had a jingle. "Nachlis. Nachlis. Nachlis. Where customers send their friends!" which people still sing to me today. My family and I were driving up, cuz we visited some family up in that area last summer as we're getting into town and you get the radio stations starting to come in.
I tuned it to 98 5 KRZ, which is a station that I grew up listening to when I would go visit my grandparents. In the Wyoming Valley back in the day It was like 3:15, so I knew who was on the air, right? And I turned to my family and I said, this guy that's about to come on the radio has been doing afternoon drive at Wilkesboro, Pennsylvania since I was coming here, to visit my grandparents in the eighties.
And sure enough, he comes on the air and it's this guy, jumping Jeff Walker and he has been doing afternoons at KRZ since the 1980s and he did this break. The very first break we listened to, he did this break about Montage Mountain, which is both a ski resort, but then they've also got this amphitheater there.
And, over the summer it's the whole festival circuit. The concert circuit comes through there. And they had a concert the day before and I don't even think it was a top 40 artist. It was a country artist. To his credit, he's telling the story because that didn't matter.
I'm not thinking about format. I'm thinking about here's something that affected my community. Apparently, what had happened is Montage Mountain is really hard to get in and out of traffic-wise. It gets all bottled up, and so it was taking people hours, literally like first of all, thousands of people missed the show.
And then it was taking people like hours to get out and call after call and the way they were dealing with this on air was so well done and so local. and I just felt like that's the content you have to look for. Like you could be on the air for 50 years if that's the content in your town that you're focused on.
JAG: Jay, I gotta say it's been, as we look forward to the 50th anniversary of the stations launched and celebrating that at the banquet in March. It's been great to see you back at the Banquet in recent years. I know for a while you weren't coming, but now I've seen you back almost every year.
Jay: Yeah. It really it fills your soul by coming back to the banquet. I really look forward to it now on a yearly basis and appreciate it more than I ever have. And actually, JPZ's kind of the gift that keeps on giving. You're someone that, as you mentioned at the top of the podcast, you're someone that I only connected with a few years ago.
Matt Friedman, I think, introduced the two of us. And that's the thing, here. I mean I graduated a long time ago. I can't even count that high. And here we are still making connections in the industry and that's a thing that never stops, which is pretty special.
JAG: I think so. Jay the feeling's been mutual. It's been great getting to know you these last few years.
It's great having you here on the podcast. And if you don't know Jay, he's somebody that you should know because he's a great guy. He's someone that knows a lot about a lot, especially in the world of radio. And you'll see him hopefully this March in Syracuse.
Jay: I'll be there.
JAG: We'll leave it there. Jay Nachlis, thanks so much for joining us today.
Jay: Thanks Jag.