Today's podcast is in two parts. In the first half hour, you'll hear Brent Axe's journey from 89.1 The Pulse summer staffer to the premiere voice in Syracuse sports coverage. After we recorded that chat, Brent was fired from his position at Galaxy Media, which is part-owned by Jim Boeheim, ostensibly for being "too negative" in his coverage of Syracuse University sports. Galaxy Media's owner, Ed Levine, spoke of the decision in this interview on Syracuse.com
In the second half today's pod, Brent will give you his side of the story, including Ed firing him via phone the day after Boeheim's expanded role at Galaxy was announced. The story was covered by national sports media outlets. We asked Brent how this could have played out differently? What if Ed and Jim had asked him to "take it down a notch?" What if Brent and Ed had mutually agreed to part ways?
This is the first place that Brent Axe has spoken at length about what happened in March. But he ties it back around to WJPZ - mentioning how supportive the WJPZ family has been over the last several months. And in the spirit of "The World's Greatest Media Classroom," Brent talks about the lessons learned here for other broadcasters. Sure, we all have to "hold our nose" and support corporate initiatives, but where do you draw the line and not compromise your integrity? When do you have to be willing to walk away? Brent also talks about being an adjunct professor at Newhouse, and stressing to his students that there is indeed a "business" side to "the business."
Brent will be releasing his own podcast in the coming months, and we'll be sure to keep you updated on that.
This week, Brent created a substack. And in his first post, he gets very raw about being fired from radio. Highly relatable to many of us. https://brentaxe.substack.com/p/what-they-dont-tell-you-about-getting
The WJPZ at 50 Podcast Series is produced by Jon Gay, Class of 2002, and his podcast production agency, JAG in Detroit Podcasts.
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JAG: Hey, it's Jag. Before you listen to today's episode of the podcast, it's a little bit unusual, so I wanted to take you behind the scenes of how it came together. Back in February, Brent Axe, who was a summer staffer when he was in high school at 89, 1 The Pulse, and then eventually went on to become one of the biggest names in sports broadcasting in Syracuse, came on, told us about his journey.
Again, that was February 14th. Well, as you all know, in March after the basketball season ended, Jim Boeheim was out as coach. Well, two days after Boeheim was out, Brent Axe was out at Galaxy Media. So how exactly did that happen? You're gonna hear Brent explain his side of the story at length for the first time here.
So the first 30 minutes of today's episode are the interview that we recorded back in February. And then after the break, you'll hear Brent explain what happened after our first interview. I hope you'll listen all the way to the end because Brent will explain how this story ties back to JPZ and lessons that can be learned for former, current and future students.
Welcome to WJPZ at 50. I am Jon Jag Gay. If you know sports talk in Syracuse, you are definitely familiar with our guest today. He is Brent Axe. Welcome to the show.
Brent: Jon. Thanks for having me. This has been an incredible series and I'm thrilled to be a part of it.
JAG: So take me back to your involvement with JPZ. You weren't an SU student, but you worked there when you were just a baby, right?
Brent: That's right. I've got a pretty unique story here. I'm one of the few Z89 slash 89-1 The Pulse, as we'll talk about alums out there that did not go to Syracuse University. I remember it distinctly. I was walking the halls of Bishop Ludden high school, and it must have been 1994, and I see a flyer on the wall, old school.
That says 89-1 The Pulse, looking for summer interns. So I had just started getting into air quotes, broadcasting, when I was at Bishop Ludden because I was always walking around the halls, just talking sports and being me. And sister Nancy comes up to me one day and she's like, you're always yapping about sports and doing all these things.
Why don't you do the morning announcements? And Jon, I just took over. It used to be Sister Nancy, just like blandly reading us the the cafeteria menu. So I just stepped in there. I'm doing Letterman top 10 bits and saying, sister Nancy walking in, saying, oh how lovely you look today and sports and all kinds of stuff. I played music over the PA one day. That didn't go very well.
JAG: Wow. What did you play?
Brent: Stone Temple Pilots. Interstate Love Song. That didn't go very well. That's the one and only day I played music. So I just had gotten into this. I was doing PA for the boys’ basketball team, won the state championship that year and I see this flyer on the wall and I go to this meeting.
That must have been Watson Hall, right? And I was like, oh, that sounds fun. And they just threw me in the pool. So I remember my first gig, if you will, there was a remote at an old bike shop on Erie Boulevard in Syracuse called Wayne's Bike Store. And I show up and for the first like 20 minutes, I couldn't tell you who was there doing the remote.
I can picture the faces. I just don't remember the names. And for the first 20 minutes they thought I was just like a listener. Just hanging out. And then after a while I'm like I'm Brent. I'm the new intern. So then it just went from there, at the radio station and doing every shift in the book and just whatever they needed me to do, it was incredible.
JAG: So with that being the Pulse, that was Dan Austin and Jeff Wade? They were running the show when you first walked into the station?
Brent: That's right.
JAG: And obviously if you're playing Stone Temple pilots over your high school PA, the music was a home run for you at that time.
Brent: It was right in my wheelhouse. I just started getting into all that. The grunge era and go through all the names, Pearl Jams, Soundgardens. Stone Temple Pilots. And to have that radio station make that switch. I knew what Z 89 was. I listened to Z89. Back in the day, it was a huge deal. . As you've talked about and many great guests have talked about on this podcast, but there was something just so cool and revolutionary about this new thing they were doing.
And that was the music I was listening to and, but we were doing sports too. Remember Jon, this is 1995. Sports talk radio's in its infancy, right? We don't know what the hell we're doing. WFAN, the first all sports radio station goes on the air in 1988. So everybody's just trying to figure out what we're doing, and I just thought this was the greatest thing in the world that I could come hang out with these guys.
And I can't even remember what day it was, but whatever slot we had, we got a little two-hour window where you could talk sports. It's what we did and we just figured it out as we went along. And speaking of sports, like that was my first sports experience. I, again, I'm bad with names here, but I remember a guy took me to a Syracuse Chiefs game.
I didn't know we could go to these games for free with a press pass. So we go, and this is the old MacArthur Stadium in Syracuse, New York, before the new stadium opened up, which was a dump. But it had its charms too. And I went to the game and we cover the game and we're up in this old rickety press box and then, He's okay, let's go down to Postgame.
And I was like, what's that? Wait, we get to go in the locker room and we get to talk to people. And Jon, I remember being in there, we're waiting for some players to come over and there's all this food over on this table.
JAG: Oh my God, he has created a monster. No wonder why you've done this full-time for over two decades now.
Brent: So I take two steps towards it, and I just remember a gentleman from WSYR puts his hand on my shoulder and he says, son, I would not recommend you do that. Because that was the post-game spread for the players, I got the bug. I'm like, man, we get to do this and cover sports and talk to these athletes.
But man, as we'll talk about just being a DJ, being on the air, playing tunes. I did overnights. I did mornings. I did afternoons. You name it, I did it.
JAG: So this is during breaks while the SU students were gone from the Hill.
Brent: This is the thing too. Yeah. This is summer and I did a couple winter shifts too. It's a skeleton crew. So you're seeing a lot of the same faces and covering shifts for people that couldn't make it. And I don't know, we barely held it together. I remember Dan and Jeff getting stressed at times about how many people were there, but we made it work. And they were appreciative that they had somebody that I showed up whenever it was needed. I had a part-time job working at like a grocery store in the summertime, so I balanced that out a little bit. Yeah. But it was incredible to be in there and the energy and doing giveaways and. I remember we were associated, somehow, we gave away a bunch of tickets to a Goo Goo Dolls concert. This was before the Goo Dolls were big.
JAG: This is like alternative.
Brent: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. This is what truly alternative and being at this show. It must have been at the Landmark. It was in a small theater. And there was probably like only 500 people there. I remember just feeling the energy and how incredible that was to be a part of something like that.
And, at the time, I remember we DJ'ed a few parties on the hill, it was some kind of DJ service we had, and I helped out with that a little bit. And even in the summertime there was events like that going up. It was a little bit of everything. It was something new every day.
JAG: So you're doing some stuff during the school year too, helping out when they needed an extra set of hands and you're a high school boy then surrounded by college girls at these parties. I can't imagine that was a bad gig.
Brent: Yeah. Jon, I'm gonna tell you, I'm not gonna lie. Brent got a few dates out of the DJ days and doing things like that, like you said. But it was fun and we were just having a ball and we hung out outside of the radio station too, doing stuff.
JAG: I know you said you're bad with names and faces. Obviously, Dan and Jeff were running the show, but do you remember any other folks that you were working with at the time, whether they were other summer staffers or other folks at the station or any other names come to mind?
Brent: Yeah. Yeah, I definitely remember Dave Crider, who was another intern like me, didn't go to Syracuse and Jay Palladino.
I remember those guys did the morning show a lot, and I hung out with them a few times and did that. I remember Matt Kaufman hung hanging out with him. He was amazing. What a great dude. Outside of the radio station I don't wanna name names here. I, let's just say we took some substances and went and saw Independence Day.
JAG: Oh, wow. That, that would've been a great movie to see in an altered state.
Brent: It was a great movie to see an altered state, but that's what we did. We hung out outside of the radio station, and I remember just like, it was summertime just hanging out whatever house they had. I don't know, somewhere on campus.
I'm a high school kid. I'm a junior in high school and a senior hanging out with these college kids, and they showed me the way in a lot of things. But what really stood out to me, what I remember about that, is not just having fun and hanging out with these guys. It was, they had a passion for this.
They had a passion for radio, and I didn't appreciate it at the time, but I appreciate it now, Jon. This was a real radio station, right?
JAG: Absolutely.
Brent: You learn the way. So when I went to Herkimer County Community College, that's where I go to college, eventually. I didn't have the grades to get into Syracuse, and let's just say I concentrated a bit more on my lacrosse career than I did on academics in high school.
And I did okay, but I had to go to community college, which was great. It was amazing for me because you walk in the door and they just throw you right in the pool, walking into the student radio station, WVHC at Herkimer. I had been a part of a great student run station for two years. I knew exactly what to do and how to do it right.
And that first semester at Herkimer, I got an internship at WIBX Radio, where I ended up working for six years.
JAG: Oh wow.
Brent: While in college and outta college. So that training I had at Z 89, like it was immeasurable. To be a part of it, cuz I walked in and I just hit the ground running.
JAG: What kind of station was IBX?
Brent: WIBX was a news talk station. So I got an internship. A friend of mine actually had the internship with a gentleman by the name of Brad Davies. So Brad Davies did a show called Sports Watch at Night. At the time it was, news talk radio was, Dr. Laura and Rush Limbaugh and that kind of thing.
But at night we did the sports show. I interned with Brad and then just. I was supposed to be there one or two days a week. I ended up just showing up every day, and then they gave me a part-time gig as the producer. And then eventually I was the producer and co-host and ended up being the sports director after Brad left after a few years.
And that was my first gig while I'm in college. And I wasn't wide-eyed and trying to figure out what to do, I knew what to do. Because I knew exactly how a radio station was supposed to run and that was an advantage for me. They took a chance on an 18 year old kid that this was a professionally run. I remember people wearing ties at the time.
JAG: That is a long time ago on radio.
Brent: Yeah. The newscasters wearing ties in the studio and they took a chance on me. But they saw something in me and that all has to do with my time at Z 89 slash the Pulse.
JAG: Were you at IBX when they flipped back to Z89? When Dena and Harry flipped it back? What was your involvement at that time?
Brent: I was definitely there when the flip happened. And I was not happy about it.
JAG: Yeah, I mean there was a lot of tension at that point, right?
Brent: There was a lot of tension about it. I didn't understand it. I remember there was some talk, I believe Harry talked about it here on the podcast, and I messaged Harry after I listened to it and I said I'm sorry I was so mad at you when you made the switch.
Now, having heard that story, that incredible story that they went through at that time, not knowing it. But I remember being mad about it. I remember I think I wrote a letter and posted it on the wall, if I recall correctly. I just can't be a part of this. I remember sitting there doing a shift.
And there wasn't a ton of music at the time cuz as Harry explained, like they had to do it quickly. And they would talk about like he did it because they thought another station was gonna flip to a similar format. And I remember Dr. Rick walking in. And remember Jon at this time. I had no idea who the legend, Dr. Rick was.
JAG: You were the only one.
Brent: I was the only one who didn't know. I didn't know at the time. I certainly do now. But he is just I remember Dr. Rick being like, yeah, the boss come around and has changed the format of the station! Radio! Just who is this guy? And I'm sitting there, so I go from playing Pearl Jam and Soundgarden and all this music that I loved and we didn't have a ton of music at the time.
And I remember playing on the same shift, like I think it was Men in Black, oh, six times the same shift. What are we doing? People are calling, right? They're calling the request line what is going on right now? And I'm just like, I can't do this. I think I technically resigned.
My internship was up at the time I was in college and I was working at WIBX, so I had taken some steps past what I was doing anyway. But yeah, I was not happy about it, but I was wrong because they needed to make that switch. The Pulse had a great run, but I think that was in hindsight that was the right decision.
JAG: It really is interesting to look back at those events 20 years later with the benefit of hindsight. So tell me a little bit about your career since you've been all over. You've done a lot of stuff in Central New York. So what happens after IBX?
Brent: I worked at WIBX from 1996 to 2002. And in 2002 I was contacted by a gentleman by the name of Jim Lerch who ran Sports Radio 620 WHEN. The frequency's still on the air, but it's not a sports station anymore. So from 2002 to 06, I worked at WHEN. I took over for Adam Schein was a very popular sports host.
JAG: Big shoes to fill, who went national, CBS and all that.
Brent: Yeah, absolutely. And I felt that pressure. Trust me, I was a fan of Adam Schein.
So from 2002 to 2006, I worked at WHEN. I also did Syracuse basketball and football coverage on WSYR. And Jon, at the time, WSYR had just lost the rights to Syracuse. It had gone over to Galaxy Media to TK 99, where I work now.
JAG: That's right. Okay.
Brent: Think about that. Syracuse University sports have been on WSYR forever. Just lose it. And all of a sudden WSYR is like counter programming. They're the voice of the fan and like going against what Syracuse was doing in a way. So they counted on me to be that. And I embraced that role. It's not that I was against Syracuse. They won the freaking national championship in 2003. It was a story in and of itself, Jon. I was on the air until five in the morning taking calls all night from people after they won the title. And God rest his soul. Joe Galuski walks in, the former morning host on WSYR, at five in the morning.
I'll never forget it. He looks at me, he goes, what the hell are you still doing here? I was like, we won the national championship, baby!
JAG: G-d, I remember that. And so 20 years ago, cuz I graduated in 02. My then girlfriend was still a student there. So I went back for that night. I remember watching the game in the Carrier Dome and they had it up on the big screens.
And it was myself and the late Bill Leaf, who I know you worked with and a couple of our friends. We watch the game and what do we do afterwards? We walk outta the Dome. Of course it's snowing. There's a couple inches of slush on the ground in April. And I remember just like trekking through the masses at Marshall Street and watching people hang from tree branches and not being able to feel my legs from the knees down cuz they were covering slush and snow.
I'm like, could this be any more perfect? Syracuse, the night they win in the national championship, it's snowing in April.
Brent: And I was supposed to go and I can't remember why it broke down, but I didn't end up covering the game in New Orleans. And which I was pissed about at first, but it turned out for the best.
I would rather be in my hometown talking to the fans, people crying on the air. And I think that's what really helped me build a bond with my listeners. And I grew up here. I went to those games. I was at the game when Pearl Washington hit the shot and when Billy Owens hit the free throws and when Michael Owens caught that two-point conversion in 1987, go through 'em all.
I went to all those games as a kid. In the eighties and nineties. So I could connect to that. That was my training ground. Z89 and 89-1 The Pulse helped me figure out how to be a broadcaster and how to convey that message, but I was a fan trying to make that transition into broadcasting and I was always intrigued by that.
I would look down Courtside and see Doug Logan calling the games and I'm like, Dad, who are these people that get to sit down by the court? And I was always intrigued by that. And then eventually, thanks to going to that Syracuse Chiefs game, I figured out what that was. So to go back to what we were talking about, so I worked at Clear Channel, which it was at the time. So now it's 2006, Jon, and I have a one month old. I had just moved into a new house. And Clear Channel laid me off.
JAG: Was that December of 06?
Brent: That's November of 2006.
JAG: Because I got the Zig at ClearChannel in Burlington in December of '06. Merry Christmas. Time to start cutting for next year's budget. Always the way.
Brent: You remember. We were names on a spreadsheet that had to go. I never got a good explanation for it. I remember sitting in a meeting, signing my papers, the severance paperwork. And someone who shall remain nameless was bragging about the fact that the pen that I was signing my severance papers with was purchased in Italy.
JAG: You gotta be freaking kidding me.
Brent: I'm not kidding you. And I boy, I glared at that man, like the fire of a thousand hot suns.
JAG: Oh, wow.
Brent: Think about this. I've got a one-month-old, I've got a mortgage. Thank fully my wife was gainfully employed as a teacher, but it was the worst thing that ever happened to me, Jon. But it was also the best thing that ever happened.
JAG: Always is, always works out when that happens.
Brent: A hundred percent. It was the best thing that ever happened to me cuz I got to spend a year at home with my daughter and raise my daughter, which was incredible.
JAG: Nice.
Brent: And what happens is it's fight or flight, right?
JAG: Oh yeah.
Brent: What do we tell so many young broadcasters now about connections? Man, I called everybody I knew. That's when you really slap it down and say, I need help. And that led to me, so this is 2007 now, and a gentleman I used to sit next to at the Syracuse basketball games, shout out to Jake Lewis from syracuse.com. He says why don't you why don't you write a blog for us? Give us your takes on sports. Perfect. And I was like, great. What's a blog?
JAG: 2007. Okay. Yeah. All right.
Brent: He's just give us some takes. We'll take care of the rest. So I start writing for syracuse.com part-time, trying to figure out this blog thing. Then in 2008, I get hired at The Score 1260. I'm working at Cumulus. I'm doing four hours in afternoon drive, and eventually who becomes my boss? Dan Austin. One day we've got the big staff meeting. Who's the new boss? Nobody knew. Everybody's nervous. What's going on? And down the stairs walks Dan Austin and I said, I know this guy.
JAG: That's great.
Brent: So Dan and I worked together at the Pulse. Dan was a rockstar man.
JAG: Still is.
Brent: Still is. To this day. Even then you could tell this guy's gonna be running radio stations one day. I knew it back then. He was selling, he was doing everything you had to do. So Dan was huge in my career. He helped really forge the vision I had for The Score 1260 at the time and what it should be. And I remember sitting down with Dan and another gentleman by the name of Kevin Legrett and I laid it out for him what I think a sports radio station in Syracuse should do and what it should be. And they agreed.
And I remember Dan and Kevin saying to me like, okay, listen if you want this vision to come true, you gotta put some skin in the game here and we'll back you and we will believe in you. And that eventually turned into, we were simulcast on Time Warner Cable Sports Channel, which no longer exists, but was there at the time. That turned into a gig for me as the pregame, halftime and post-game host for the Buffalo Bills radio network. A longtime Buffalo Bills fan. What a dream come true. They sucked back then. But hey, I was on an NFL broadcast team for three years.
JAG: As a Patriots fan. I'm happy to have handed the reins over to you for the division for the foreseeable future. But go ahead.
Brent: One of the greatest days in my life is when the Bills beat the Patriots in 2011, early in that season, and we intercepted Tom Brady four times. Things would get better, but at the time, that was about as good as it got. Jon.
So in, in 2012, syracuse.com approached me and they said, we want you to work here full-time. We want you to write more. We want you to do, podcasts were in their infancy. They wanted me to do something along the lines of digital audio. And even though radio was in my blood Dan had left at the time and I just didn't see myself growing anymore at Cumulus. I was tired of corporate radio.
JAG: Sure.
Brent: So I left on my own terms. I resigned and went to work at syracuse.com full-time. I wasn't outta radio long though, because Ed Levine, who owns Galaxy Media. Ed and I at one time had been big rivals. Ed used to get pissed cuz Jim Boeheim used to compliment me in some of the post-game press conferences and ed would get mad at Boeheim cuz he's, that's the other guy. He works for the competition. You can't talk about it.
JAG: Cause Ed had the rights of the games and you're counter programming. That's funny. Okay.
Brent: Yeah, that's right. So Ed asked me twice to come back to radio and I said I wasn't interested. I always appreciated the conversations and the time, but eventually Ed's pretty persistent and Ed is somebody who's very convincing and we had a great conversation about, okay, let's do this. It started with an hour on ESPN Radio Syracuse, that turned into two hours and a little pre and postgame coverage as well for Syracuse University Sports. And that's what I'm doing now. I'm still doing two hours on the radio on ESPN Syracuse, and full-time sports columnist at syracuse.com and to be able to do both of those mediums at this point.
I'm so blessed to have that real estate and to have that voice in Syracuse, New York, quite literally on the radio, but also as the lead sports columnist at this point.
JAG: It is interesting because if you look at where the media landscape is right now, the dinosaurs of the old "four and the door" jocks where you come in, you do your shift, you go home, they are getting phased out.
In order to survive in this business, you have to be able to do a lot of different things and you're personifying that right now, Axeman, because you're talking about writing for a blog while doing a radio show and having as many touchpoints with Syracuse fans as you possibly can.
Brent: It's all over the place, Jon, because look, when I went to Herkimer, I wanted to be Chris Berman.
I wanted to be on tv and then I fell in love with radio when I got that internship at WIBX. So I get the gig at The Score 1260, eventually be simulcast on television. So you have to learn those aspects of it. I wasn't a writer, I just figured it out as I went along when Jake Lewis said you wanna write a blog?
So writing is so important. No matter what you're in radio, you have to write. You have to be able to have that skill. And now even today at ESPN Syracuse, we're simulcast on a site called CuseSportsTalk.com, it's run through Twitch. I just told my students this the other night.
I should add to the conversation. So here's the guy who didn't go to Syracuse, who worked at 89-1 The Pulse and now I'm an adjunct professor at Syracuse University. I teach a sports interviewing class for five weeks out of the semester. And I tell my students this, when we eventually get into the world of podcasting, and you know this as well as anybody, Jon, I said, look, podcasting is no longer an audio medium.
There is a video component you have to know, you have to do. You have to know how to edit it. You have to know every aspect of that, right? So it's so huge. Even on the radio today. One big thing that we do on social media is every day my producers and I sit down after the show. We're like, what are gonna be the clips today?
So you'll see on our ESPN Syracuse and Cuse Sports Talk social media feeds about a minute or so clip from the show each day, which gives you a little slice of what that show was. And hopefully you click into the podcast like, I wanna hear more. That's such a huge part of what we do on a daily basis that's on the radio.
But if you're doing a podcast, that's just standard, you better be doing that. You do it for this and anybody that's doing a podcast. The audio component is where my heart is as a radio guy, but you gotta know everything at this point.
JAG: You're leading me to my next question, Brent, and you and I could talk podcasting all day for sure, but as somebody who has a daily radio show, where do you see the world of radio right now and what does it need to do to stay relevant?
Brent: I think people that embrace the word audio, that's where we're at here. Yeah, radio's great. I love the tradition of radio. I love when people say they listen on the radio. And contrary to popular opinion, radio is not dead. Radio is still very much a part of people's lives. It's just in different places.
It's cool when somebody gets in the car and turns on the radio, but it's on your phone. It's everywhere. So wherever that radio is, it's still something that people embrace. I get the opportunity now via not only the Cuse Sports Talk feed, but just people that pull up, ESPN on their phone. The ESPN app has an audio function and you can pick all kinds of different radio stations from across the country. People that live all over the place not only listen, but call to the show. I have a few regular callers that don't live in Syracuse, but they wanna stay connected. So that's where it's at.
So you have your central home base, if you will. You sit in a studio, you do a radio show on a traditional radio station, but you still have all these other ways and these formats to reach people. But you still want it to feel local. You still want them to feel connected to what's happening in Syracuse, New York that day. Yeah. The day after a big Syracuse basketball game.
You still want them to feel like I'm listening to the radio. No matter what device it's on, no matter what format it's on, you still have to create that intimacy, that connection. That's what radio is today. We just have this amazing technology to convey that message no matter what format it is.
And now people see it. They see behind the scenes. That whole theater of the mind thing is almost passed, right? Because when you can watch me do a radio show on CuseSportsTalk.com, the combination of the elements. Jon, one thing that people always ask me about when I in covering sports is something along the lines of what's this really what's it like behind the scenes?
JAG: Who's the man behind the curtain? Wizard of Oz kind of thing. Yeah.
Brent: Who's the man behind the curtain? What's Jim Boeheim really like? What do they do in the locker room? What's going on back there? So that's what we can bring our viewers and our listeners now they see the process.
They know how the sausage is made as it's being made. And they're continually fascinated by it. So I think our jobs now is to let them into the process as much as possible. So that whole, the Wizard of Oz, who's the man behind the curtain like that doesn't exist anymore. You get to see it and hear everything.
JAG: Seems like you've learned so much from your time at IBX, at JPZ, Axeman. As somebody who has been on in the market and the voice of the Syracuse fan and covering Syracuse sports for as long as you have, if you had to give one piece of advice to a young aspiring broadcaster today, what would that be?
Brent: My advice would be do it. Because unlike me, now I had my PA days at Bishop Ludden High School, so I had somewhat of a training ground, and I was lucky enough to intern at 89-1 The Pulse, and get on the air. But think of the resources you have right now as a young broadcaster. You can start a podcast today.
JAG: Sure.
Brent: You can start a video stream today. So do it and then do all the things that all the great alums at 89-1 The Pulse slash Z89 will tell you, make connections, right? If you're somebody that goes to the mighty Newhouse School of Communications, you've got the ultimate resources there. You don't need me to tell you that, and the amazing opportunities that are there.
But the important thing is to do it. Get the reps. And by the way, don't worry about how many people are watching or listening, right? Just do it and then eventually someone will notice. You'll connect with somebody who can help you along the way. That amazing Z89 alumni base that will point you in the right directions, will give you the right pointed, constructive criticism to be a broadcaster, to do what you wanna do.
So take advantage of this incredible space you have that I didn't have back in, in the mid 1990s that you do today, through everything that's available to you, and the rest will take care of itself.
JAG: That is a great place to leave it, Brent Axe, Axeman. We're gonna link to all of your content in this show notes as well. Thank you for spending some time with us today.
Brent: Jon, thanks so much for having me. You're doing an incredible job with this and shout out to all the people that have been a part of Z 89, but especially my 89-1 The Pulse peeps. You're special to me and we did something pretty cool, even in a short period of time.
JAG: All right, so here we are now on May 25th. I mentioned this off the top. We had a great conversation, Brett and I, on February 14th actually. But things have changed a bit in the last couple months, so welcome back, sir.
Brent: Things have changed slightly from that half hour conversation you just heard, and this is a JAG exclusive.
I haven't real talked extensively about this, but I think given the audience that listens to this podcast and my WJPZ family and particularly any aspiring broadcasters coming up listening to this? I think it's important to circle back and kind of update what happened here.
JAG: I appreciate that and I do wanna give you the floor to tell you the story as it happened to you.
So let me give you the outside perspective from where I sit, which is Jim Boeheim leaves, retires as coach of the Orange, and then, uh, he leans on station ownership to say, hey, Brent's been pretty critical of me over the years. We don't want him on the air anymore. Am I way off in that? Is there some truth to that? Is that exactly right?
Brent: Well, so I was fired on a Sunday. The day before that it was announced by Galaxy Media that Jim Boeheim was gonna take on an extended role. More appearances. I'm not exactly sure at this point what he's gonna be doing. But look, I can't prove that Jim Boeheim had me fired Jag. But I will go to my grave believing it was done to appease him.
JAG: Now, full disclosure, he is a part owner of Galaxy. Do I have that right?
Brent: That is correct. So I mean, the timing of that was interesting and it was my question to Ed Levine who phoned me on a Sunday afternoon to fire me about Jim Boeheim's involvement in the station, which caused him to go on a rant on that phone call, which you also read.
And if you haven't, you can still look it up. Pretty much word for word on syracuse.com. When Ed Levine talked on the record to syracuse.com and the reasons, for firing me. I mean, that is almost word for word what he said to me when it was an inquiry about Jim Boeheim that set him off with that.
So I can't prove it. I can't prove it was done as an order by Jim Boeheim. I don't know if, to use a mafia term, Jag, if he ordered the hit or not. I can't prove that, but I will go to my grave believing it was done as a basically a hat tip to Boeheim because the reasons for my firing were I was, as Ed put it, I was too negative in my coverage, not only of Jim Boeheim, but a number of things that had been going on at Syracuse University at the end of his tenure here.
It's announced on a Saturday. He has more involvement in Galaxy Media. I get fired on a Sunday. Listen, I don't think we have to go to a whole episode of law and order to figure out what went on here. Okay?
JAG: What's interesting is you talked in that conversation that as a listener, you just heard about being the voice of the fan, and that's kind of how you made a brand for yourself, particularly when you were at WSYR and Galaxy got the rights to the games.
SYR didn't have the games anymore, so you're not the pre-game host, you're the fan. You're talking to the fan. That's how you made your bones. You talked about being on the air the night that they won the national championship back in '03 and really forming a bond with the fans. So to me it just seems kind of ludicrous to say, well, you're being too negative toward the team, but the teams have not been good lately.
Brent: That's exactly right. Jag. And look, while I worked for Ed Levine at Galaxy Media, right? My boss is the audience.
JAG: Yeah. Okay.
Brent: And that is at radio. That is at syracuse.com. While I have bosses and people above me, my boss is my audience, my readers, and my listeners. And I think people listening to this need to realize that.
So in the aftermath here, I feel so vindicated because to a T, people that have reached out to me in various forms, text, email, DM. In the produce section at Wegman's. Okay.
JAG: I'm glad you got a Wegman's reference in.
Brent: We gotta get a Wegman's reference in there. To a T, Jag, have come up to me and said, thank you for what you did.
Thank you for speaking for me. And many of them predicated it by saying, look, I don't always agree with you. But I appreciated the way you did your show. This is after I got fired, JAG, even before I got fired. You know, there were times during that last season. Where I was challenging Boeheim or challenging the way things were being handled by Syracuse University Athletics, whatever the case may be.
I had people come up to me then at the Dome in other places saying, hey man, love that you're going after coach. Love that you're challenging those guys. Don't let them get away with that. And you can go back and look at a couple of things and happened the way Jim treated a student reporter at a particular press conference. There are specific things you can go back and look up. I can't say who it is, Jag, but I had somebody who, if I said their name right now, everybody listening to this would know, who came up to me. This was before I got fired, and they hugged me. Huh. And said, hey man, you're the only one who does it right.
So I was feeling pretty good about doing my job, and this is a challenge that you are going to be in as a broadcaster, as somebody in media, sports or otherwise, right? This is what we do. You challenge authority, right? True, you hold truth to power, however you wanna frame it, and you have to decide how far are you willing to go?
How far are you willing to go to stand up for your readers, for your listeners, for your audience versus being safely gainfully employed. Right? What do you value more? So it cost me my job to do what I was asked to do. I mean, from day one, I was upfront with Ed Levine and anybody that would hire me. This is who I am.
This is what I do. So as long as you understand this is how I'm gonna do my job, then, okay, let's do this thing. So I feel so vindicated that to this day, Jag, I get people that reach out to me and say, hey man, not only do we miss you, but thank you for what you did and how you did.
JAG: You know, you said before we sat down today, Brent, that you wanted to maybe have this be a lesson for young reporters, students, people just coming into the industry.
I pretty much know the answer to this question the way you've been speaking so far, but I'll ask it anyway. If Ed or anybody else in management, or even Boeheim, himself had come up to you and said, hey, you gotta make a choice here. You gotta back off on the criticism, or we gotta let you go. How would that conversation have played out in your mind?
Brent: The conversation would've been, thank you for the opportunity.
JAG: Thank you for the opportunity to work here. But this isn't for me.
Brent: This isn't for me because that's not the way I'm gonna do things. While Ed has a relationship with Syracuse University Athletics.
Sure.
Galaxy Media is the home of Syracuse Sports, and I completely understand that.
But I was hired to do the job that I was to do. Even with that understanding that at times I would be critical of Syracuse sports. I have to maintain my integrity as a journalist, as a radio host, and I'm not there to do "homer radio." if that's the kind of station he wants, that's completely his prerogative.
But I felt like I've got a good enough reputation in this market, and I feel like I had a good enough relationship with Ed that even if I wasn't for him, that it didn't have to end that way. Clearly it was personal to him. Because I was as critical of Jim Boeheim as I was. Which by the way, for the record, I only said one time, once on the radio, on his radio station, that Jim Boeheim had to be fired, and the circumstance of that was this. You'll recall the Wednesday Syracuse lost to Wake Forest in the A ACC tournament, right?
JAG: Mm-hmm?
Brent: We come on the air pretty much right after that game, and this was after that awkward press conference with Boeheim, when even then he was wishy-washy about what he was doing and how he was doing it. He wasn't sure. We're slowing down.
JAG: The analogy that I made at that time, Brent, was it's almost like the boyfriend who's too much of a chicken to dump the girl.
Brent: Yes.
JAG: So he treats her badly and basically dares her to dump him. That was the impression I got from that press conference.
Brent: That's a perfect way to put it.
So what I did is I came on the radio at four o'clock that afternoon and I say, look, if he can't make this decision, then Syracuse University needs to make it for him. An hour later, Jag, the press release comes out that Syracuse was moving on from Boeheim. So clearly this was premeditated, this was happening regardless of what happened that day.
Just the process got accelerated. So then that Friday, they had the "make good" press conference, which I'm glad they did by the way.
JAG: Sure.
Brent: Nobody wanted to see this end the way that it was starting to look like it was going to. So they had the Friday press conference. Autry's officially introduced. Boeheim's there. It was a great kiss and make session, right?
JAG: Sure.
Brent: Sunday, I'm fired. After that. So if Ed wanted to move on and have his product be presented a different way, I completely understand that it's his station. He can do what he wants with it. But I feel like I could have been professional enough that I could have walked away on my terms.
I could have done a last show, I could have said goodbye to my listeners in a respectful manner, and it didn't even have to be mentioned publicly why I was moving on. I could have just moved on. And Ed could do what he was doing, and I was doing what I was doing and a, and thanks for the opportunity, but let's move on here.
But, you know, that's not the way it happened. And here we are. And Jag, the response that I got from people, particularly members of my JPZ family. I can't even begin to tell you how appreciative I am of it. I get choked up thinking about it. I mean, my phone didn't stop buzzing for a week, and there was a lot of national attention on this. I mean.
JAG: Right. That's a national story of coach retires, is part owner of the radio station. Station fires radio host that was critical of said coach. I mean, that's a big story.
Brent: It was a big story. I wish I wasn't at the center of that story, but I'm also thankful to Ed that he said what he said publicly and put it out there.
As opposed to 99% of the time, you know how this goes. You get the email that says, we wish them well, and it's vague and you've gotta explain to people a hundred times what happened. Well, by him putting it out there publicly, we saw the reaction to it. Okay. I'm not tooting my own horn here, but I think you can go look at the national coverage of this thing. G-d, Bill Simmons, Keith Olberman, Barstool. Sports Illustrated. I mean, you name it, the New York Post. I mean, I'm just thinking of things off the top of my head. I actually chronicled a lot of the national coverage and then held onto it, you know, for something I can show.
JAG: Why not?
Brent: Show people down the road? Why not? When, you were the center of the sports media for 24 hours, but that was validating to me too. I feel vindicated that people saw right through it, they saw the situation. Now we're here a few months later and it's still a story that resonates with people, and I just feel bad for the people that are on that station now because their credibility has been put under question.
That audience now knows what those hosts are up against and what they're expected to do, and how they're expected to cover those teams. I mean, it's out there now, right? So as long as you know that if you're a listener at that station and you're still good with that, that's your choice. But I feel like we're kind of entering a world.
Another Syracuse alum, by the way, Sam Blum, has put up with this in his coverage of the Angels. He's a writer for the Athletic. And he was removed from their pregame show for the same reason, because he was too negative. So you've gotta know when you get into this business, what you're up against, the decisions you have to make, the parameters on what you're working. And like I said earlier, JAG, how far are you willing to go to serve your audience? That is something you, you've gotta think
JAG: about. I wanna ask you this question and, if you're not able to answer, or don't feel comfortable answering it, that's fine. Full disclosure, I've never met Ed Levine. You've had a long-time relationship with him. Do you think that he feels, if you'd had the conversation, like you said, hey listen, we wanna go in a different direction. This isn't the kind of show we want anymore. Here's a chance for you to say goodbye to your audience. Do you believe that he thinks you would've gone on and said, "Hey, listen, they want me to be too, "kissy uppy" to Syracuse, so that's why I can't do the show anymore. Bye." That he doesn't believe you would've just handled it professionally and left that conversation out of it.
Brent: I don't wanna speak for him. But based on what he said to me, and based on what he said on syracuse.com, I don't if there's any question about that. Once those words came out of his mouth to me on the record, I don't think, and it's funny cause it happened anyway, right? But I don't think he wanted to put himself in that position.
JAG: Right.
Brent: I don't wanna speak for him there, but That certainly seems to be the case here about why this went down and how it went down.
JAG: And what's interesting too is you know, back in the early days of radio, back when you and I were at JPZ, 25 years ago, there wasn't social media, there wasn't blogs, there wasn't podcasts, there weren't ways for you to get it out.
So when you got canned by the radio station, you were just gone from the air when nobody ever got the story, hey, what happened to my favorite dj? Well, they're gone. Like you said. "We wish him well," which is, like saying, "bless his heart" in the South. But now if you have all these platforms, your story is going to get out, which is what's so perplexing about this whole thing, is how was this story not gonna come out?
Brent: Right. And had it not come out the way that it did. And I just had that conversation with him. Now it's my word against his. Because my conversation with him was not on the record, but he chose to put it on the record and look, I can't speak for him. I don't know what he thought, by doing that, how that was gonna make him look.
Again, I feel like he's appeasing some people that clearly fall in a minority here, and clearly are people that work at Syracuse, Boeheim himself. yOu know, the people that were most upset about what I was saying, right? So he's kind of fallen on a sword for, this is just my opinion, he's fallen on the sword for Syracuse University, for Boeheim, whoever you wanna put on that list.
Meanwhile, you have a whole audience out there that you're trying to serve, right? That you pissed off by getting rid of the person who I think by all accounts, was probably the most fair in their coverage of this whole thing and held Syracuse, Boeheim, whoever you wanna put on this list, most accountable for what they had to be held accountable for at that time.
That's something. I wasn't gonna do, and I will never do, I will never sugarcoat it. I will never, you know, short of being, if I worked for Syracuse University, that'd be different. But as long as I'm in the position I'm in, I am gonna serve my audience as, as best as I can. And Jag, no matter what happens from here on out, okay. I will have my integrity. And I will have no regrets. Not a single regret about how I did it. How I covered it and how I serve my audience, and to be able to say that feels a hell of a lot better then still having a job in that situation. I'm not gonna lie.
JAG: You know, what you're talking about is something that they don't always teach us at SU and some of us may or may not have learned at JPZ, which is there's a business to this piece of it, you know?
Much, much more minor scale. But so many of us, like I worked for Clear Channel/iHeart for a number of years, and you were there too, where you gotta go on, you gotta promote the iHeartRadio Music Festival and you gotta promote the iHeartRadio Music Awards. They're "Promote this, promote this, promote this."
At the detriment of putting out good content to your audience. And I had a mentor when I was working at iHeart who said, hey, I know what you're thinking, but those who follow the corporate mandates succeed in this company and get promoted. Those who don't embrace corporate initiatives, don't. And he cited some examples that were pretty powerful at the time without mentioning names.
So there is that piece of it. What do you say to a student or to a young alum who thinks, well, geez, am I gonna be in a situation where I've gotta compromise my values or good content for the sake of my boss? You mentioned you don't work for Syracuse University, but you were working for Galaxy who makes money from Syracuse University to cover the games. So there's a lot of gray area here, Brent.
Brent: There is. And so here's where this is going to become a tad ironic. I'm an adjunct professor at Syracuse University.
JAG: Right. You mentioned that in the podcast.
Brent: I teach a class for five weeks each semester, and in the first 10 minutes of every class, Jag, I make it abundantly clear to my students. You are going to get the real deal perspective of somebody that's working in the business and you are going to learn things as you just said, which is what made me think of it, that they don't teach you here. And one of the things that I tell them is what you just said. You have to learn all aspects of this business, not just how to do what we do as journalists, but this is a business. And all the people that affect it and how that will affect you and what you do and what you're willing to tolerate in doing that.
Now I'm talking about things that, oh, damn the man. And look what I did. There's been plenty of things Jag that I've done that I'm sure you've done that we had to hold our nose and do, because I did wanna keep my job. You can't just be the fighting rebel every time you get a memo to do something. You have to be a good employee too.
But I think that's something, again, in particular to the audience that's listening to this. Current students, future students, those that have not entered the business yet, that you need to know and you need to educate yourself about. You need to know all aspects of what you're doing. Stressing that word business, right?
The sales end of things, and the business end of journalism. Learn about that, how it works, what the priorities are, what you'll be expected to do. You know, I write for syracuse.com, which is now, the emphasis is on subscriptions. And how that business works. Know how that works. Know what your role in that is.
If you're in radio, know what your role is in terms of sales, communication with sales, what you're gonna be expected to do to help sales. And we can go through all the different aspects of business here. If you go into this yourself. If you wanna go on your own and do a podcast and do a newsletter and do it that way, well, you've gotta know how to sell that thing.
You've gotta know how to get people to subscribe to you, to solicit advertisers and all the various ways you can make money doing this, right? So I can't stress that enough. It's cool to do what we do, sports or otherwise. And there's been so many great stories of people on this podcast that get to do something they love to do, which is great.
And I would encourage you to pursue that, but just know everything you possibly can. It's all out there. We live in a world where there's not much you're gonna discover. You're like, oh crap, I didn't know that. About this. It's all out there now. So you're the best you can to educate yourself about it.
JAG: I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you, Brent. What has your relationship, or how has your relationship been with Boeheim over the last few years? Has it been contentious? Has it been up and down? What's been your relationship with him before we got to this point?
Brent: It, it has soured. Sadly. I used to interview Jim Weekly when I was working at Galaxy. I was the one that they interviewed him once a week. I enjoyed those interviews. I think he enjoyed those interviews because I was pretty straightforward with Jim. I didn't kiss his ass. He knew he was gonna get real questions, but I was gonna be fair. It's his interview, right? I'm gonna give him the floor to say what he has to say.
If I had to push back a little bit, I would. So starting the season prior to this one, I was no longer doing that interview. He chose to go on another show. Same thing with Dino Babers, by the way, that's a whole different topic for a different day. I think I have a better relationship with Dino. And look to be fair to Jim, okay, I did not cover as many games in person as I had prior the last few years. And that's a whole different story about some responsibilities I had at syracuse.com and doing a post-game show which did not allow me to be at the Dome for as many games as I wanted to be. So I was not in as many press conferences in front of Jim as I wanted to be, and that's another thing that I would stress to anybody getting in this job.
No matter what your opinions are, you gotta show up. You gotta be there, right? If you're gonna criticize the people that you are covering, you better show up whenever you possibly can and sit right in front of 'em at press conferences, whatever the case may be. Just to show. And to be fair, so I had not been in as many games to maintain that relationship in recent years.
So it has broken down. We no longer have a relationship.
JAG: Got it.
Brent: And I felt like to Jim's credit, he was one of the most accessible people out there outside of formal interviews. You can call Jim Boeheim, you can get him on the phone. I don't know if I can do that now. I think that's the cost of the honesty that I presented, what was happening in that situation.
JAG: Is there anything, Brent, related to this story, to your perspective on things, that you wanna get out there that I have not yet asked you
Brent: about? I don't think so. I think you've really covered all the things I felt like we needed to cover that I feel like people needed to hear, particularly again, those that are up and coming in this business and, you know, you're getting the real raw story of what you can encounter.
I just hope that the lessons people take from these situations, make them more aware of either what they're getting into, or maybe there's somebody listening to this that's in a situation, media or otherwise, and they have said, maybe it's not worth it for me. Right? There's always something on the other side.
Take it from somebody who has been fired from a radio job, has been laid off from a radio job, and who left a radio job to pursue something else. I had three different opportunities there. There is life on the other side and you will find your way. And I will say this too. Particular to this podcast we're listening to and the JPZ family, we have, man, what do we talk about all the time?
What do we tell students all the time about making connections? And when you really need something, leaning on those connections, that more than anything has carried me through the past couple of months. Those connections, those people reaching out me in some cases reaching out. Jag, you are very high on that list. You have been so helpful to me.
JAG: Appreciate that. Thank you.
Brent: I can't even tell you, so make sure you, I don't wanna say take advantage, that's not the right way to frame it, but all these connections that you are going to build in your JPZ family when you really need 'em, they're there for you. So please, please know that.
JAG: That's a perfect way to bring it back around Brent. I thank you for your time. I thank you for your transparency and honesty and telling your side of the story, and doing it here. Always appreciate spending time with you.
Brent: Thank you Jag. And again, thank you for everything you've done here on WJPZ of 50. It's been an incredible thing and your efforts are greatly appreciated by myself and so many others.