"Goofy" Bette Kestin, Class of 1993, and currently Old Navy's Director of Media Strategy and Investment, is today's guest. This New Jersey native did not join WJPZ until her junior year, but quickly made up for last time, doing everything from commercial traffic to public service. She jokes that she did jobs "that nobody else wanted." She was also part of a very small skeleton crew that kept WJPZ on the air during a blizzard at the end of spring break 1993.
We've celebrated so many of our collective successes on this podcast, but Bette wanted to spend some time on lessons learned when things didn't go her way. She talked about having a job offer in Las Cruces, New Mexico rescinded just before she drove out there, and a sales job that made her realize just how challenging that field can be. However, that led her to the agency side, where she spent most of her career.
When the Soviet Union collapsed, a number of Western companies saw an opportunity to expand their global footprint. And after her agency opened a Moscow office, Bette soon had an opportunity to go to Kiev, Ukraine. If you haven't seen her social media posts over the last 18 months about the amazing people of that country, she spends a few minutes on her experience there, and why Ukraine remains so close to her heart.
After reacclimating to the West, she headed to San Francisco, before being tapped for a 3 month stint in China. Upon her return, the dot.com bubble burst, and she came back to New York. But when an opportunity came to return to the Bay Area, she took it, and has been there since.
Five years ago, a former client reached out, and Bette found herself working for Old Navy, which eventually led her to her current position. We spend some time on the current media landscape, and what she sees in her current media strategy role, including radio's piece of the advertising pie. Also, how has Covid impacted Old Navy's business - as work from home started, then evolved?
And we wrap up with classic WJPZ story - the Crazy Morning Crew drinking on the air, with MADD and police officers present. And there's a twist. (Disclaimer: The host on the board was sober, so incompliance with FCC regulations.)
We asked Bette to recommend some resources to make donations to the people of Ukraine. She gave us three, below.
https://savelife.in.ua/en/donate-en/
https://prytulafoundation.org/en
https://donate.wck.org/give/398293#!/donation/checkout
The WJPZ at 50 Podcast Series is produced by Jon Gay, Class of 2002, and his podcast production agency, JAG in Detroit Podcasts.
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JAG: Welcome to WJPZ at 50. I am Jon Jag Gay only in the group that is WJPZ could I be talking to Old Navy's Director of Media Strategy and Investment, and in the same sentence, refer to her as Goofy Bette from the class of 93? Bette Kestin. Welcome to the podcast.
Bette: That's me. In fact, maybe I should just change my LinkedIn to say Goofy Bette.
JAG: Before we get to the nickname and the radio station and the morning show and all that fun stuff.
How did you first find out about Syracuse and then the radio station?
Bette: I of course knew about Syracuse cause I was interested in communications and whatnot. It was not necessarily my first choice. I thought I wanted to go to USC and be a screenwriter and my parents were not that thrilled about me going all the way across the country to California from New Jersey.
So there weren't a lot of options. I think I applied to something like 12 schools or something ridiculous like that. And then when the acceptance from Newhouse came, I realized that just had to be where I was going.
JAG: Ironic that your folks didn't want you going out to California at 17, 18 and there you are now.
Bette: I pretty much always get my way, Jon. That's just how it is.
JAG: I understand. All right. And by the way, since you can't see Bette, she is wearing an awesome 315 hat that's blue with orange lettering on it, so I should point that out, or orange numbering I should say. So you get to Syracuse, looks like you've got an interest in movies and writing and stuff. How did you find Z89?
Bette: So unlike most of the other people you've spoken to, I did not find Z89 until my junior year. I was in Brewster Boland freshman year with a very social group and just, that was where all of my activities and social life came from was my Brewster Boland crew. And then I don't know, junior year, I think I probably heard about the station from Kell, then Foster and now Shapiro.
And she and I are both from the same hometown and knew each other most of our lives. I think she was the one who first suggested to me I come to the station. So I went to the recruitment fair junior year. And it's funny now when I, as I was thinking about everything in preparation for this, it's crazy to me that JPZ was only part of my college career for 50% of the time because I think I only have two friends from college who are not from the station. And just once I found the station, I feel like I probably spent 24 hours of my day there, other than class time. So I think I made the most out of my time, considering I was only there two years.
JAG: Speaking to several other nineties alums, they do remember you for being at the station 24x7 when you were not in class. So that is absolutely true, based on confirmation from other sources.
Bette: Not only during the school year. I spent my two summers there. I stayed.
JAG: Did you? Okay.
Bette: I was there spring break of 93 when the blizzard happened and everything shut down and wound up three or four of us were on campus to run the station 24 hours a day. It literally was from the day I stepped foot in the station. I just basically never left till I graduated.
JAG: So in all that time there, what are the, some of the things you did at the radio station?
Bette: So of course I attempted to be an on-air personality. It was definitely not my strongest talent, I would say. I don't think I really ever graduated beyond middays. I did do Crazy Morning Crew with Steve Donovan and Carl Wiser. That was, I think, where I had the greatest comfort level, just having team members to rely on and not have to carry things by myself.
JAG: Since you went there first, I'll ask you, how did the nickname Goofy Bette come up?
Bette: Just we were doing our thing on air one day and Carl was running the board and he just turned around and he just said, Bette, you are so damn goofy. And literally nobody ever called me anything other than that ever again. I still have friends, Tony Renda, Steve, Carl, who literally still only call me Goofy or GB. So.
JAG: GB. I like it. Goofy Betty. I love it. Okay. Yeah. So you had that comfort level with other folks in the room with you, but aside from the on-air piece of it, you did a lot at the station too, I'd imagine.
Bette: I did. So I realized when I got there, I was behind. I obviously was a junior. A lot of people my year were on senior staff, executive staff. I realized I just, if I really wanted to get involved, I needed to just raise my hand and do a lot of things. And so my strategy at the time was just to do the things other people didn't really want to do. And at the time that was traffic. I became the traffic director very quickly, which was extremely tedious and not particularly fun.
JAG: And to be clear, you mean sponsorships, not "cars on the road" traffic?
Bette: Correct. Yep. Filling out the time, I'm sure it's digitized now. It was paper traffic instruction with a daily schedule.
What I liked about it, it was required me to be at the station almost every day or several days a week just to do those. So I did that for basically my whole time at the station, literally because nobody else wanted to do it. Public service was another thing at the time was not very sexy, especially compared to promotions where you were giving away cars and movie tickets and stuff.
It was when I started at the station with public service. I think it was basically just making sure we had PSAs to put on the air and running the Sunday morning special programming, which I'm assuming is still going on. I don't know at the time it was some pre-recorded shows. And also the Jewish sound with Rabbi Rappaport.
JAG: Rabbi Rappaport.
Bette: And really nobody wanted to do that job. So there I was most Sunday mornings hoping that the rabbi actually showed up, cuz he didn't always. And helping to get him set up and make sure he started on time and ended on time. And another job really that was not that much fun. But again, I think that is a good strategy for people joining new organizations is find the things other people don't really wanna do and volunteer to do them. And it's a way to really quickly get yourself integrated and involved. So that was what I did, and I eventually became public service director. I did that for a year and a half.
My memory is terrible. But I seem to have a recollection that whoever was public service director my junior year, left mid-year. Gave up the role or something, so I stepped into that and then did that my senior year as well.
JAG: It's understandable having had so many roles and making up for lost time, which you clearly did by doing all these things, you might not remember every single detail a few years later.
Bette: Plus, I'm old. Let's just go there too.
JAG: I would not say that.
Bette: But public service was great. We actually created a lot of programs that hadn't been there before and I think we did a lot of good and had a lot of fun. So that was a definite highlight with the public service piece.
JAG: Any significant station events come to mind that happened while you were there that you were a part of, that you remember from your time or from your two years there at the station? In terms of the station or newsworthy or otherwise?
Bette: The blizzard was a big one, and I actually had to go fact check a few things in preparation for this, again, because of my bad memory.
JAG: But you're also a broadcasting pro by fact checking before you even hop on the podcast. Let's not let that slide. Okay.
Bette: Of course I don't wanna give you any fake news! But I had this memory of, so basically the blizzard happened at the tail end of spring break, my senior year. And don't even ask me why I stayed on campus during spring break of my senior year. Just points to maybe how geeky I was dedicated or how little I had going on in life.
But in any case, there were a few of us who were there. For some reason I remembered that I was staying at Sharon and Kim's. Sharon Goodman and Kim Sykes were roommates in a house off campus. Over there near Ackerman or one of those streets and I remember staying there over this spring break and I couldn't remember why, cuz obviously I did have my own place.
But in any case, I remember just camping out there with Jeff Dyson and Dan Austin. And Dan or Jeff seemed to remember Mark Verone, who was, a local kid who lived in the area. And the four of us and maybe a handful of other people just being around and the pressure to just not let the station go off the air.
Cause the station had never been off the air before. And just basically four people keeping the station going cuz the airport shut down, the thruway shut down. Syracuse canceled classes for maybe, I think it was like the first time in history or something like that. It was a big deal.
And actually I have a picture of Jeff Dyson standing next to a mountain of snow and Jeff was six two or something like that. And this snow is significantly taller than him and us, trudging back and forth between this house off campus and this station. Just keeping things going and so that, that is definitely a major memory of my time.
JAG: Lot of lessons learned between making up for lost time, doing the things people don't wanna do, and then the dedication of, hey, we can't let this thing slip. It's gotta stay on the air. We gotta come by hook or by crook. We've gotta do it.
Bette: Yeah, for sure.
JAG: Bette, we talk about this being the world's greatest media classroom, and there have been so many stories of great success we've shared in the podcast, but sometimes you learn from those not so great moments.
Sometimes you can have a setback and learn from that. I know you told me offline you wanted to talk about a little bit of that.
Bette: Yes. After graduation. I was re definitely ready to graduate in terms of being a student, going to classes and whatnot. I wasn't really ready to go out to the real world.
So actually spent that summer after graduation in Syracuse working at the station. I had also had a retail job at Shoppingtown Mall for a few years, so did that all summer. And sent out my tapes and tried to figure out what I wanted to do. I knew that I wanted to do something in radio, so spent the summer in Syracuse and towards the end of the summer, landed a job doing Middays in Las Cruces, New Mexico.
JAG: Oh, wow, okay.
Bette: Yes. I didn't know where Las Cruces was. Probably, I've not heard of it at the time.
JAG: The 505, if memory serves.
Bette: Okay good for you. It's a lot more than I knew then or now, because long story short I didn't wind up in Las Cruces. So I did accept the job. I think the pay was something like $12,000 a year, maybe $14.
Something along the line. So I had a whole plan. My dad and I were going to drive out to Las Cruces from New Jersey, so I would have my car, he would fly home. I would do my middays and maybe supplement my income doing some house cleaning or something. My general approach to life is say yes, figure it out later.
That was what I was gonna do. So accepted the job, had this plan with my dad, and before we even left the house, I got the Ziggy. Don't know if you've talked to anybody yet who. I got the Ziggy before they even showed up for their first day of work.
JAG: Oh my goodness.
Bette: The station called and said that they decided instead of filling this open spot, they were going to extend all of the other shifts by an hour so that they could make due without needing to take on an additional salary and cut costs.
JAG: That's 10 years before everybody in the radio was doing that.
Bette: So here I was, I had my super fun summer in Syracuse. And was back in Wayne, New Jersey with no job prospects. As a graduate of Newhouse.
JAG: I guess the silver lining is they told you before you drove all the way out to New Mexico.
Bette: Truth, that is definitely true. So I was back at ground zero and found myself with another mall job in Wayne, New Jersey at the Willowbrook Mall working at Banana Republic while I tried to figure out what to do next. And the next thing I did was I found a listing for a sales job at a station in Northern New Jersey, WNNJ AM and FM, and sales was probably the one and only thing I had not done at Z89.
So I figured there's no better time to give something a try than when you're living at your parents' house rent free. And through the process of interviewing for this job, actually discovered that Dave Gorab had, I can't remember if he had worked at the station or done an internship at the station or whatnot.
The owners of the station put it together when they saw Syracuse and WJPZ on my resume. Talked to Dave. He had good things to say about station and the owners. So they gave me the offer, which was actually shocking cause I really had zero sales experience other than my mall jobs at this point.
And so accepted this job doing sales at this Sussex County, New Jersey as a, it's a more rural part of New Jersey. Newton, which is where the station was, is a town. There was a considerable amount of retail and whatnot, but you still could get the New York signals for Z100 and WKTU. All the stations. It was a little bit of a hard sell. You were walking into the local pizza place, the dress shop, the furniture store, and trying to explain to them why they should advertise on the radio and. They didn't have advertising budgets other than for maybe their local papers.
So it was really hard and I really sucked at it. So I gave that a maybe about a year and I think that they were ready for me to move on as well. It was, I really was terrible salesperson, and I will say earned a lot of respect for salespeople in that position. I wound up on the advertising agency side of things for the rest of my career where I dealt with a lot of sales people and I tried to always give them a lot of respect. I know that's a really tough job anyway, without those first couple of failures. Those were my first two jobs right out of college. Failure. Failure. But I'm grateful for them because without them I would've not wound up where I did, which was in a completely different field in advertising.
JAG: It sounds like you really did learn some lessons by figuring out what you didn't wanna do, which in some ways is just as important as what you did wanna do.
Bette: Yeah. I 100% knew that sales was not for me after that job. And honestly, even the on-air job that I never really got to do, I was never a gifted on-air personality.
Like a lot of our friends from Z89, a friend of mine who was working on that ad agency side, there were a whole bunch of job openings. She said, you should come interview over here and come work at an ad agency, which I did and I was offered the position the day I interviewed for it and spent 22 years working at agencies after that.
JAG: Since the war in Ukraine started, you've been very active on social media, talking about the people of Ukraine, your time in Ukraine. Was that as you were a student or was that after you were done graduating and how did you end up there?
Bette: That was after I graduated. I wound up in the ad agency business in New York, and shortly after I started there, my supervisor took a role in Moscow.
And I was a kid, I was 23, 24 at this time. I didn't own a passport. I didn't even know things like that were possible. That you could just decide to go work in another country like that. And this was, just a few years after the Soviet Union had collapsed and Western companies were establishing themselves over there.
So she went over to help get this Moscow operation off the ground on behalf of Western clients. We had Procter and Gamble and Mars and, big companies that were trying to create established brands out there. And so anyway, she and I stayed in touch. And then as our clients were establishing offices in other countries in the region, The agency followed and created their own offices in these countries.
So when they built the office in Ukraine in Kiev, she called me up and asked me if I'd want to go out there and do that. And I had no idea where Ukraine was. I'm sure I had never heard of it before. And another philosophy that I've realized is how I operate in life is to say yes to things and then figure them out later.
Yep. So that's what I did. And I signed up for 18 months out there and wound up extending my contract by a year. I loved it so much. The people are incredible. It's a beautiful place and it was very fulfilling to go and really create something from the ground up. I made so many lasting friends there. I was the only non-Ukrainian in the office. So it was really just in the deep end from somebody who hadn't had a passport before and never been out of the country, besides Canada, where back in the day you didn't need a passport. So yeah, it was a life changing experience for sure, for me.
JAG: So obviously you hadn't been away from home and then like zero to a hundred at that point.
What was the culture shock when you got there and what things did you find were similar versus not? So we're talking mid-nineties now. This is, like you said, not too long after the fall of the Soviet Union.
Bette: Yeah, this was in 97. Yes. Culture shock everywhere you looked. Most people had never met an American before.
The most people did not speak English. Even people in the office I worked in, some of them spoke English pretty well and some of them didn't speak a word. So that was very interesting. Going to a grocery store where most certainly, the people working in the grocery store never seen an American before.
There was other expats in the town, of course, but it was still very small population of foreigners there. And just, yeah, figuring out like, how do I get food? Where do I go get a hair dryer, I arrived there, I didn't even know that, the electricity, the plugs are different and I, oh yeah, I had packed a hair dryer and I plugged it in and it blew up in my hand, basically my first day! Also, they put me in some temporary apartment until I could find a place to live. And it was a studio that didn't even have a bed. It just had a sofa and not a sofa for a six-foot American woman neither. So I was like, scrunched up in this sofa and I didn't know anybody.
It was crazy. I was 25 years old and the fact that I did that and now I'm like, that was insane. But once I started to find a couple of expats, it all went from there. Cuz like I said, the community was so small that once you met one or two and they would introduce you to the one or two they knew and it just became a really tight knit group of people out there.
JAG: And you talked about what wonderful people Ukrainians are, and I think, as outsiders looking in, we've been watching the news over the last year plus and just been so impressed with the way they've stood up to the Russian invasion and their, just their tenacity and everything.
As you look at all these headlines, you see what's on the local news at night. What's one thing that you wish we knew about Ukraine from your time there that you, that's not on the news every night?
Bette: That's a very good question. I actually feel like the news has done a very good job of painting the picture, of just the tenacity, the bravery, the love that they have for their country and their people, and their willingness to just do whatever needs to be done to defend what's theirs.
One thing I'm sure most people are aware of is men between a certain age or were not allowed to leave the country. Because they needed them to help supplement the military forces that they have there. Most of my female friends, if not all of them at this point, have left the country.
But I do I have friends that, one of the people I hired at the agency is fighting in Ukraine right now. He's an advertising guy. I mean, it's wild and it's crazy. And most of them have gotten their families out, so they're just, defending and their land and trying to be able to bring their families back somewhere that's safe and secure.
And obviously nobody thought it was gonna last this long and. To me, it doesn't seem like there's much end in sight. So it's scary. And I've been very happy with, people have just been reaching out to me a lot, still just asking, where can we give and. What can we do and how do we support so.
JAG: Well, that was actually my next question. For people listening who want to support, do you have any recommendations of where their money or efforts can go?
Bette: Yes, I am happy to provide a couple of links that maybe you can.
JAG: Yep. I'll put 'em in the show notes.
Bette: Yeah, that would be great.
JAG: So Bette, you spend what, two and a half years in Ukraine. Eventually you come home and tell me about your career since.
Bette: So I came back and they didn't have a place for me necessarily, and I wanted some time anyway to just get back into reacclimate to reality in my normal life, so I actually spent a few months just traveling cross country with another friend of mine that I'd met in Ukraine who left and came back to the US around the same time.
So we did some traveling and then while I was on my travels, I got in touch with the agency and they had a job for me in San Francisco. So I agreed. I come out here. I came out here and they had a corporate apartment set up for me. I moved into the corporate apartment and literally they called me the next day and said, actually, we need somebody to go to China for us for three months.
There's a client who's unhappy and we need somebody to go make them happy again. So I repacked up my suitcase and flew to China and spent three months in Guangzhou. . Which was exactly the opposite experience I had in Ukraine. Did not enjoy it at all, was literally checking days off on the calendar, and so I could watch the three months go by.
JAG: So aside from obvious differences between Ukraine and China, what was it specifically? You just didn't find your tribe there, or you just didn't find the culture?
Bette: I didn't find my tribe.,No I did not. . When I landed in Kiev, and I went to the office the first day. They literally were lining up to show me around their city.
They were so proud to have me to their house. They wanted to cook me dinner. I spent three months in an office in Guangzhou, and I think one of the locals spoke to me at all the whole time I was there. It just was not a friendly environment at all.
JAG: And your folks didn't want you to go to California. You've now gone to Ukraine and China.
Bette: Yes. So fortunately there were a couple of expats over there in China that I did become close with, who did become my tribe. There were literally three of them or something like that. And still friendly with some of them.
It's very polluted there. I think into three months I saw sunshine maybe a handful of times. It just was, it was harsh. It was not great. But I did the job that needed to be done and did not stay one day past the three months that I promised I would be there. And so came back and came back to San Francisco. And at the time, so this would've been in 2000. At the time, all of our clients were dot coms.
And then the bubble burst right within maybe six months of me being here. And I saw several rounds of layoffs occur in the office. And so I called the company back. My company was based in New York and I said, please bring me back to New York because this is not good out here.
So moved back to New York worked there for several years and then my now husband, then boyfriend, had a job opportunity in San Francisco. So I said I would gladly go back. I had only been here eight or nine months that first time, but I loved it so much. It's a very easy place to get used to.
The weather's amazing. The food's amazing. It's beautiful. You're near the ocean, you're near the forest. It's got it all. So we moved back out here about 16 years ago and worked at a different agency. Came out here without a job. Say yes, figure it out later. So did that again and pretty quickly found an ad agency job out here.
Did that for about 10 years. Decided I needed a break. Left there, and was ultimately hired by Old Navy, which had been my client previously. They had a reorg and reached out and asked me if I wanted to come on board. I've been doing that for about five years now.
JAG: And that speaks to, again, one of those lessons that we've learned throughout the podcast from JPZ, which is, it's how you treat people, it's the golden rule. You had a great relationship with them as a client to the point where they wanted to hire you to bring you on internally.
Bette: Yep. Karma is a real thing, and I think relationships are incredibly important no matter what industry you wind up in, how you treat people. Showing them respect, earning their respect.
It pays out one way or another. So yeah, it's all worked out better than I could have possibly imagined when I first told my husband. Sure. I'll move out there and we'll figure it out when I get there.
JAG: Old Navy is owned by Gap, correct?
Bette: Correct.
JAG: And was that the case when you started working for them?
Bette: Yeah, Gap actually created Old Navy.
JAG: Okay. Have you had a couple different roles there since you've been there?
Bette: I started actually doing maternity fill in for the person who is my boss, who was my client. She was going on a maternity leave, so I went over and did a fill-in for her for about eight months or so, including overlap on either side.
And then that ended and I was once again without a job, which was okay with me at the time, and then she decided to bring me back on full-time a couple of months later. So same role, but in a couple of different capacities.
JAG: Describe your role to me now if you could. What are you responsible for? I know no two days are alike, but what are some of the things you're dealing with on the day to day?
Bette: So I'm in charge of media strategy, which means, we have an advertising budget and determining what's the best way to spend that. Who should we be reaching? Where can we best reach them? Is that on television? Is that in radio? Is that in social media? What are the right partners? And then how do we bring that to life for them?
When should we be talking to them? What should we be saying? All those kinds of things. So it's great. I touch all media channels. It's a constantly evolving industry, so I feel like I'm always learning something new, which is very good, considering how many years I've been working. You wouldn't, at some point thinking some industries you maybe are, just have to phone it in after a while.
But especially with digital media and everything, it's evolved so much. When I first started working in the agency world, we were planning magazine advertising, which is really not a thing for most brands these days. And now it's, digital. And I had not had an email address before I started working. So it's just the amount things that have changed over the last couple of decades is really mind boggling.
JAG: You're absolutely a pro, and it obviously comes as the sum of the parts and all the jobs you've done up until this point, and you're a pro because you're anticipating my next question. I've asked a lot of people on this podcast who work or have worked in radio, their perspective on where radio is compared to other media and the rise of digital and other media.
Let me ask you the same question, because you have a different perspective than somebody who's working in radio right now. What is your overall perspective of the media landscape and how much it's changed with radio changing so much in television and the online digital world taking off like a rocket ship?
Bette: I still think there's a role for everything. Everything has, its sort of niche, I would say maybe not everything. Again, we're not spending any money in magazines these days, but I do think, everything has a role and I try to always think about it through the lens of an average person that we're reaching. Somebody who isn't in any of these industries and any of these businesses. And we use radio on a consistent basis to tell people what's the on deal this weekend in the store. And we measure everything to death. And we know for a fact that radio drives people to stores and does that very cost efficiently for us. So it's consistently a part of our mix, but I wouldn't use it for other things. Everything has its expertise or you know what it can deliver for a brand.
JAG: Like different pieces of a jigsaw puzzle on the way they all fit together, is what you're saying.
Bette: Exactly. Yeah.
JAG: So from the Old Navy brand perspective, and I can never say the word, A at leisure, athleisure wear at, how do you say it?
Bette: Are you referring to Athleta, which is our sister company or athleisure, which is a category of what I'm wearing right now?
JAG: The category. I was gonna ask you how Covid has affected this and how people so much work from home now, and how some people are still working home. My wife, for example, still works from home. I still work from home and now for me, putting on a pair of jeans is dressing up. Sometimes it is, as opposed to three or four years ago. How has that affected your world?
Bette: A lot. The first year of Covid, 2020, all anybody wanted was leggings and sweatshirts, and our business was incredible. I'm still also working from home a lot of the time until next week when we're going back to the office and I will have to get dressed and put on makeup and do my hair every day, which is just, it's frightening actually.
JAG: I could never do my hair ever again. We're recording this April 13th as a timestamp. Just so our listeners are aware, that's when you're headed back to the office. But I cut you off. Go ahead.
Bette: But when I'm home, I'm sitting here in joggers and sweatshirts and hoodies every single day.
But then people just wanted to get back out into the world, though everybody's weddings that had been canceled were happening again. And people actually, there are people who actually do wanna go back to offices, be with other humans besides their spouses and their children that are driving them off a wall.
So we've actually seen in the last maybe six, nine months, maybe even a year now, A really big uptick in, real pants that have a snap or a button or is zip on them.
JAG: And not just the elastic.
Bette: Yeah, exactly. Not just a tie around them and dresses and button-down shirts and, people wanna get back out into the world. Again, whether that's work related, travel related, socially. So we've seen a really big shift back into things that, we all used to buy on a regular basis. So it's required a big pivot for us. Brands had to anticipate when that change was gonna happen, but it was not so easy to do, cuz none of us had ever been in the situation of a pandemic before.
So I think companies, regardless of what category they're in, have had to just enable to be nimble and be agile and respond to consumer behavior, just more on the fly than what we're used to.
JAG: Fair enough. Before I let you go, are there any funny stories aside from covering blizzards and staying and running the station from under six feet of snow that you can think of from your time, whether it was in the morning show or just in general from the radio station, you still look back and laugh on all these years later?
Bette: I do have one and I've double checked that all parties involved were okay with me telling the story because
JAG: Great. Save me from having to ask you. Terrific.
Bette: One of the initiatives we did while I was public service director was, and I don't remember where this idea came from, but we decided we wanted to show the effects of drinking too much alcohol.
So we did a morning show where it was Carl and John Beck who it has become very successful in the TV field in Los Angeles, and myself. And one of us drank beer, one drank vodka, and one drank wine. At seven in the morning on the crazy morning crew, and we had in the studio with us, two police officers and somebody from MADD, Mothers against Drunk driving.
And the idea was we would each have one drink an hour. Over the course of the show, we would do the breathalyzer, the audience would hear how much more nonsensical we were becoming than we normally were in the morning. So we did the show and at the end of the show, John Beck revealed that he wasn't 21 yet.
JAG: Oh!
Bette: And he thinks he'd last minute filled in for somebody who was supposed to participate in this and didn't show up or something. But anyway, he'd been standing in the studio drinking alongside two police officers all morning while he was only 20 years old, which I just find so ridiculous and so hilarious.
JAG: And is that a situation where the cop is gonna say, look, that's not good, but we're serving a greater good here. We're not gonna haul you outta here.
Bette: They never knew. He revealed this to me after the show was over.
JAG: Oh, so he didn't mention it in front of the cops?
Bette: No. This was something he confessed to me afterwards, after everybody had left, we all went of course, to Denny's after this was over.
My, my roommate who was not part of the station, drove us to Denny's, our drunk asses at, 10:00 AM. To Denny's. And that may have been where he told me. I don't remember, but it was a shock. I had no idea.
JAG: So nobody swore on the air, even though you were guys, were, you guys were hammered?
Bette: Nobody broke any FCC Rules. Not that time. I did have a habit of swearing on the air and then with I was the bane of Tim McCubrey. He was our legal director at the time. I was like his biggest fear that I was constantly slipping about and swearing all over the place. But no, we somehow kept it together, I think. I don't remember that much about it. It was hard to suck down three. I think I was drinking the vodka.
JAG: That was my next question is, which one were you drinking?
Bette: I think I was probably drinking the vodka and I'm sure it was the cheapest vodka available at the time for us college students.
JAG: Let's just say it wasn't Grey Goose or Ketel One at that time.
Bette: Definitely was not.
JAG: Bette Kestin, goofy Betty, as your classmates will know you from the Crazy Morning Crew and the class of 93 from WJPZ. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast and sharing some great stories with us.
Bette: Thank you so much for having me. It's been fun.